Post No. 9692

Date uploaded in London – –5 JUNE   2021           

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I  have been reading the Sanskrit Vedas through English books  for over 50 years. Most of them by foreigners and a few by Marxist professors; very rarely one or two by genuine patriotic Hindus. When I lived in Madurai until 1986, I got very good books from the Victoria Edward Hall Library and Madurai University Library. Since January 1987 , I have been living in London where I have got two excellent libraries – The British Library and the University of London Library. Some local council libraries also had some very good books donated by Hindu scholars. But I have never tried to read the Vedas from A to Z. Now I have started reading the Rig Veda from First Mandala/Book. I started in April 2021 and I will be finishing the first Mandala very soon. Then I would have covered 191 hymns out of 1025 hymns. That means a long way to go.

The reason for writing now is to tell you the wonders I found so far.


I thought that the earliest fables are from the Upanishads dated around 8th Century BCE. Later we find many fables in Ramayana and Mahabharata. Buddha Jataka stories are polluted with Bodhisatva and moreover the originals are ‘stolen’ from the ancient Hindu folk lore. Abroad,  we hear about Aesop fables rivalling with our Panchatantra and Hitopadesa.

But the origin for these fables, particularly animal fables lie in the oldest book in the world – The Rig Veda. Even before finishing the first book with 191 hymns, I read, quail caught by a wolf, but saved by the miraculous Twins Asvins. In two or three hymns, we see the eagle or falcon bringing the Soma plant. I have already written about the origin of Santa Claus Reindeer cart. It is actually in the Asvin Mantras ! Asvins carts are drawn by deer, swans and other birds etc. we also read about flying horses with a horn in the Rig Veda!

Signatures in songs

I used to wonder why the Tamil Hymn singer Tiru Gnana Sambandr used his name in every decad (Ten Poems) as a signature (Mudra) and why all others such as Purandaradasa, Thiyagaraja, Muthu swami Dikshitar, Bhakta Meera, Kabir and others followed him in placing their name in the last line. Sambandar, the Boy Wonder of Tamil Nadu, lived 1400 years ago. But the origin of such Mudras is in the Rig Veda. Agastya who has over 25 hymns in the First Book (Mandala) alone finish few of his compositions with Manharya, Son of Mana says this . Kutsa Angirasa finish his poems with a phrase or line invoking Aditi, Sindhu, Earth and Heaven.

In Meera Bhai’s compositions we see Meera ke Prabhu Girdhara Nagara, in Kabir poems ‘his name’, in Dikshitar’s ‘Gurukuha’ etc.

So,  all these saints followed the rig Vedic rishis/seers. Even today the composers place a Mudra in the new compositions.

As I have mentioned elsewhere three greatest contributions of Vedic Hindus to the world civilization are 1. Decimal System, 2. Domestication of Cow and announcing it as Mother because the cow’s milk is the closest to Mother’s milk and Domestication of Horses and yoking them with wheeled chariots.


tags- signature, Kriti, Mudra, Animal fables, Vedas 



Post No. 9053

Date uploaded in London – –19 DECEMBER 2020      

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this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

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We have four Vedas now – Rik, Yajur, Saama and Atharvana. Vedas are the oldest and biggest collection of religious works in the ancient world. The scholarly world wonder about Vedas for two reasons:

All the hymns, over 20,000 in number, have been passed by mouth. This is unheard in any part of the world. Vedas clearly say it should not be written and must be heard and remembered. Until this day it is followed in traditional Vedic schools.

The second wonder is that there is no such bulk of literature in any part of the ancient world. Though we have some religious texts in Egypt and Babylonia, they are nowhere near the Vedas quantity wise or quality wise.

 I can add one another wonder; that if we draw a line in 800 BCE, we see a huge volume of literature in India and a very few in the other parts of the world.  This shows again two things:-

India is the land where civilization originated and spread to other parts of the world. Bhimpetka in Madhya Pradesh has 40,000 year old rock paintings which mean, in the centre most part of India, in the deepest forest, men lived in India.

Second thing is all Latin and Greek words can be traced back to Sanskrit and Tamil roots. So languages and script also migrated from India to other parts of the world. ( I have shown it in my 70 plus articles)

When we compare it with the lost portions of the Vedas, we have more wonders.

The oldest Grammar and Linguistics book in the world is Ashtadhyayi of Panini dated by Goldstucker around 800 BCE.

The grammar book and its commentary Mahabhasya give us some information about the lost portions of the Vedas.

Vedic schools = Charana in Sanskrit

Branch = Saakhaa in Sanskrit

Most of the Vedic charanas were founded by  rishis whose names were also used for Gotra/clan appellations




“The Vedas in their infinitude being like the expanse of an endless ocean, no one has been able to master them. Even so in the remote past there were individuals conversant with a large number of shakass.

Since the Krta yuga there has been a decline in the powers of man.

Krsna Dvaipayana Vyasa knew all the 1180 recensions / shakass of the Vedas revealed to the world by various sages.

The Saama Veda had the highest number of shakaas/ branches/ recensions, 1000.

In the Rig Veda there were 21 .

In the Yajus 109 (Shukla/White Yajur Veda – 15 and Krsna/Black Yajur Veda- 94)

And in the Atharva Veda -50

Visnu Purana mentions   the number of Shaakaas to be 1180; another scholar says there were 1133  shaakaas.

During 5000 years or more since Veda Vyasa divided the Vedas, many Saakhaas have been lost. Out of the 1180, we are in the unfortunate position of only six or seven.

Rig Veda has only one Saakhaa now- Saakala Saakhaa or Aitareya shaakaa

Saama Veda 997 shakaas lost;

Shukla /White Yajur Veda – Maadhyandina  Saaskhaa and Kaanva saakhaa

Krsna/ Black Yajur Veda – only Taittiriya Brahmana is extant.

We should be guilty of a grave offence if the seven or eight Saakhaas of the 1180 that still survive become extinct because of our neglect.; there will be no expiation for the same.”

For full details in Tamil, please go to Deivathin Kural; for full details in English, please go to ‘Hindu Dharma- The Universal Way of Life’, Bharatiya Vidhya Bhavan, Mumbai, 2000


Vedic literature

Thieme , tracing Panini’s (Paaninii) references to their original sources has shown that Panini derived his grammatical material  from the texts of the Rigveda , Maitraayanii Samhitaa , Kaathaka Samhitaa, Taittiriya Samhitaa and Atharva veda, probably also from the Saama veda. To these may also be added Saakalya pada paatha of the Rigveda which has supplied him with material for Suutras 1-1-16-18

P Thieme , Paanini and the Veda, p.63

Thieme further points out that some of the Vedic forms used by Paanini cannot be traced back to any extant Vedic works. Possibly they were derived from some text or saakhaa of the black Yajurveda which was known in his time but now lost to us . p 64 of the above book


Under Rigveda comes this paragraph in Agrawala’s boo


Paanini mentions the Aamnaaya and dharma of the Bahuvrcha school as Baahuvrichya 4-3-129

And refers to Bahuvricha as the name of Charana 5-4-154 .

That this school once enjoyed wide distribution, is shown by Patanjali speaking in terms of the Bahuvrichas while referring to the Rigveda recensions

Ekavimsadidhaa baahuvrichyam 1-9

The Bahuvrichas are referred to in the Satapatha Brahmana 11-5-1-10 and quoted a dozen times  in the Aapastamba  Srauta sutra. None of these citations can be traced to the two Rigveda brahmanas known to us , viz. Aitareya and Kaushiitakii and Keith was led to observe  that ‘it is perfectly certain that he  — Aapastamba – meant some definite work which he may have had before him and in all probability and all his quotations came from it .

Keith , Rigveda brahmanas, p.496


Panini mentions by name certain other Vedic schools , whose exact affiliations are not known. E.g.

Taitila – Kadru in sutra 6-2-42

It contains an allusion to the students of Aachaarya  Titilin, also mentioned in the aforesaid Vaarttika 6-4-144

Patanjali mentions Karudaah and Kaankataah as names of schools 4-2-66; 2-286

Of which the former appears to be students of Kraudi mentioned in the Kraudyaadi gana 4-1-80

The Kaankata Brahmana is referred to in the Aapastamba Srauta- suutra 14-2-4 along with other unknown texts- see Keith,  J R A S .1915, page 498

The schools of Karmanda and Krisaasva which are known only from panini 4-3-111 and those of  Kaasyapa and Kausika  4-3-103 were confined to their sutra works only, showing to what extent specialisation under the Vedic charanas had advanced . the Kausikas belonged to the Atharva Veda , but the affiliations of the other three are not known .

Pages 317 to 328 , India as known to panini, V S  Agrawala, university of Lucknow, 1953

Brahmanas, came after Samhitas and they are dated from 1000 BCE. Of all the lost brahmana works that of Saatyaayana has been quoted most frequently according to B K Ghosh (Fragments of Lost Brahmanas).

tags – Vedas, lost, 1180 Shakas, Charana




Post No. 8956

Date uploaded in London – –21 NOVEMBER 2020   

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this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

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Vedic Hindus were keen observers of the sky. They recorded all the 27+1 stars even before the world started writing in their languages. Some parts of old testament were written in 9th century BCE. Zend Avesta of Persians came around that time. Latin and Tamil literature came vey late, just 2000 years ago.

Hindus differentiated stars from the planets; stars twinkle and planets don’t. Stars maintain relative distance and remain static, but planets move. Mahabharata beautifully describe the stars as

Nakshatra means the one which does not move- says Mahabharata- na ksharati iti nakshatra-

Shanti parva 290-36.

Rig Veda says,

One of the sages went on observing  the sky day and night, says ,

The pure and alert king Varuna presents a heap in the bottomless sky above the world. The rays of light  placed inside dome come down though the source or base in above—Rig Veda  1-27-7

Atharva  Veda 13-12-17 and 20-47-14 state that

The stars run away with the night, just like the thieves, for the sun to see the world.

The suns are powerful than the moon and the earth is greater than the moon. The moon is kept in the lap of stars- RV 10-85-2 and  AV  14-1-2

Rig veda mentioned some stars out of 27 stars.

Agha-Magha and Arjuni ; Revati ; Punarvasu ; Chitra ;

Tishya .

The word

Nakshatra is used in the Rig Veda  at 1-5o-2; 10-68-11; 7-86-1

Taitriya Samhita of  Black  Yajur Veda 4-4-10  gives all the names of the stars. This means that they observed the path of moon and recorded everything even before other cultures started producing literature. Black  Yajur Veda  is dated before 1000 BCE.

Here is the list; the deity of the ‘nakshatra’ is given in the bracket-

Kritika –-Agni ,

Rohini – Prajapati ,

Mrgasirsa –Soma ,

Ardra – Rudra ,

Punarvasu- Aditi,

Tisya –  Brhaspati,

Aslesa – S arpa,

Magha- P itr

Purva Phalguni – Aryama,

Uttara Phalguni-  Bhaga,

Hasta – Savitr,

Chitra – Indra,

Svati – Vayu,

Vishaka – Indra , Agni

Anuradha – Mitra,

Jyeshta – Indra

Vichrti –  Pitr,

Purva Ashada-   Aapa,

Uttara ashada- V isve Devaah,

Srona –  Vishnu,

Svavista- Vasu,

Satabhisaja – Indra,

Purva prostapada –  Aja Ekapada ,

Uttara Prostapada –  Ahirbudhnya,

Revati-  Pusan,

Asvayujau-   Asvinau,

Apabharani-  Yama.

Knowing that moon, sun and earth are in one line they named new moon day as Amaa vasya;

Amaa means together and Vaasya means residing .


Here are some more details from our previous posts-  


  1. Ashwini –Alpha, Beta –Aries அஸ்வினி
    2) Bharani – No 28,29,41 Taurus பரணி
    3) Krittika – Pleiades கார்த்திகை
    4) Rohini – Aldebaran Hyades, Alpha, Theta, Gama, Delta and Epsilon Taurus ரோஹிணி
    5) Mrigashirsha – Lambda, Phi 1, Phi 2, Orion மிருகசீர்ஷம்
    6) Aardraa –Betelgeaux – Alpha Orion திரு ஆதிரை
    7) Punarvasu – Castor, Pollux with Procyon Alpha, Beta, Gemini-Alpha Canis Minor respectively புனர் பூசம்
    8) Pushya – Gama, Delta and Theta of Cancer பூசம்
    9) Ashlesha – Delta, Epsilon, Eta, Rho and Zeta Hydra ஆயில்யம்
    10) Maagha – Alpha, Ela, Gama, Zeta My and Epsilon Leonis மகம்
    11) Poorva Phalkuni – Delta and Theta Leo பூரம்
    12) Utra Phalkuni – Beta and 93 Leo உத்தரம்
    13) Hasta – Delta, Gama, Eta, Virgo ஹஸ்தம்
    14) Chitraa – Spica, Alpha Virgo சித்திரை
    15) Swaati – Arcturus – Alpha Bootes ஸ்வாதி
    16) Vishaakha – Alpha, Beta etc Libra விசாகம்
    17) Anuraadha – Beta, Delta, Pi –Scorpia அனுஷம்
    18) Jyestha – Antares Alpha, Sigma Tau Scorpio கேட்டை
    19) Mula – Scorpio, tail stars மூலம்
    20) Poorvaashadaa – Delta and Epsilon Sagittarius பூராடம்
    21) Uttaraashaada – Zeta and Omicron Sagittarius உத்திராடம்
    22) Shraavanaa – Altair – Alpha Aquila திரு ஓணம்
    23) Dhanishtha – Delphinus அவிட்டம்
    24) Shatabhisak – Lambda Aquarius சதயம்
    25) Poorva Bhaadrapada – Alpha and Beta Pegasus பூரட்டாதி
    26) Uttara Bhaadrapada – Gama Pagasus and Alpha Andromeda உத்திரட்டாதி
    27) Revathi – Zeta Piscum ரேவதி


Like we have Graha purusa and Vastu Purusa, Varahamihira gives us some information about Nakshatra Purusa:

The FEET of the stellar deity are represented by the star Mula

The LEGS by Rohini

The KNEES by Asvini

The THIGHS by two (Purva/Uttara) Asadas

The PRIVITIES by two Phalgunis (Purva/ Uttara)

The HIPS by Krittikas

The SIDES by Purva and Utthara) Bhadrapadas

The STOMACH by Revati

The BREAST by Anuradha

The BACK by Dhanista

The ARMS by Visakha

The HANDS by Hastha

The FINGERS by Punarvasu

The NAILS by Aslesa

The NECK by Jyeshata

The EARS by Sravana

The MOUTH by Pusya

The TEETH by Svati

LAUGHTER by Sathabishak

The NOSE by Magha

The EYES by Mrgasiras

The FOREHEAD by Chitra

The HEAD by Bharani and

The HAIR by Arudra

Hindus always describe Gods from Foot to Head and human beings from Head to Foot. It is seen in Sangam Tamil and more ancient Sanskrit literature.

12 signs of zodiac (12 Rasis) represent Kalapurusa (Time in the form of a Person). Likewise the 27 Nakshatras are distributed among the limbs of the Nakshatra purusa.






Post No. 8436

Date uploaded in London – 1 August 2020   

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

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Kanchi Paramacharya (1894-1994) was not only great Saint but also a great linguist. He says,

“All castes have rites to be performed with the sacred fire. During marriage people belonging to all

varnas must do Aupasana and the fire in which the rite is performed must be preserved throughout.

Today only Parsis seem to keep up such a practice of preserving the fire. Their scripture is called Zend Avesta

which name must have been derived from the Vedic Chando-vasta. Their teacher was Zoroaster /Zarathustra.

This name must have been derived from Saurashtra. Their homeland is Iran/ Arya.

If the fire kept by them is extinguished at any time they spend a good deal of money in expiatory rites.


BHARATIYA VIDYA BHAVAN, MUMBAI, 2000 (with my inputs)



JATUSTHIRA (JAATUUSTHIRA) occurs in one verse of the Rig Veda (2-13-11),

where Sayana and Ludwig interpret the word as a proper name .

Roth renders it as n adjective  meaning ‘naturally powerful’.


JATUSTHIRA- a certain man of that name, says Sayana ; perhaps the institutor of sacrifice.

The mantra runs like this

Meet for high praise, O Hero, is thy power, that with thy single wisdom, thou obtainest wealth.

The life support of conquering JATUSTHIRA.  Indra, for all thy deeds, worthy of lauds art thou.

(The hymn also refers to Dabhiti, Narmera and Turviti; Narmera is the name of an Egyptian king)



The major historical event of this MIDDLE PERIOD OF THE RIG VEDA –  the great battle which took place

 in Afghanistan between a section of Vedic Aryans ( led by Rjasva and the descendants of Sudas) on the one hand ,

 and the Iranians ( led by Zarathustra and Vistaspa ) on the other.

The leader of the Iranians in the battle was Kavi Vistaspa, the patron of Zarathustra

 (mentioned by him in his Gathas  Y.28-7, 46-16, 51-16, 53.2)

In the Rig Veda Istasva (Vistaspa) is mentioned in 1-122-13  attributed to Kaksivan Dairghatamas Ausija.

And Talageri finishes the chapter The Indo-Iranian Homeland with the final paragraph:-

“It is not therefore , Central Asia, but India, which is the original area from which the

Iranians migrated to their later  historical habitats.



J H Dave in Immortal India (B V Bhavan Publication) says in Chapter 37.Konarak,

“Varahamihira , the great astronomer and astrologer of 550 AD (CE) , states in his

Brihat Samhita 60-19 that the installation and other ceremonies connected with the temples of the

 Sun Temples should be traced to the Magas who were the special priests of the Sun God.

It is said that one Brahmin of the Mithra Gotra called Sujihva. The Sun God fell in love with his daughter ,

Nikshubha, and a son called JARASASTRA was born to them. The Magas are descendants

 of this Jarasattra  who is identified with he Avesta Prophet Zarathustra. These Magas put on a

girdle round their waist which was called Avyanga and are stated to be residing in Saka Dwipa.

Samba, the son of Krishna , who established the sun temple , is said to have gone to Saka Dwipa

 and brought some of these Maga priests to carry on the worship ithe Sun Temple.

Here we see connection between Dwaraka (Gujarat) and Iran and Krishna’s son Samba,

Saka Dwipa and Sun Worship.

Varaha Mihira was a great devotee of the Sun  God and the first verse in his famous

Brhat Jataka  is a prayer to Sun Goad to grant the power of speech.











Scholars couldn’t even agree on the date of Zoroaster.

They couldn’t even say from where he came.

They differ widely in their conjectures.

But Hindu scriptures speak only about outward movement; not about people migrating to India.

Latest scientific research on Saraswati River bed push the date of Vedic civilization beyond 2000 BCE.

Unless one agrees on the date of Vedic civilization , nothing precise can be said about the date of Zoroaster.

What we know so far is that he was a rebel and disagreed with the Vedic Hindus on certain aspects.

He kept the fire sacrifice alive   and the sacred thread ceremony alive,

but demoted Indra and promoted Varuna.

Also he demoted Cow and promoted Dog as divine.

Also he asked his people to throw the dead bodies to vultures instead of cremation.

Also praised Asuras and criticised Devas.

What is interesting is the words like Saka Dwipa (Iran??) Krishna’s Son Samba,

Surya Worship, Zara thustra’s link with Saurashtra

 (Saurashtra= Surya + Rashtra; both words are in Vedas).

More research will bring to light interesting details. Shrikant Talageri

has assimilated all the data available so far and

concluded those people went out of India. He said that it happened in the

Middle period  of the Rig Veda.


My Old Articles:–

Who was Zoroaster? Why Did Parsees – Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.files.wordpress.com › 2013/12 › who-is-…



25 Dec 2013 – Kanchi Paramacharya (Shankaracharya). Swamikal said in one of his talks that Zoroaster was from Saurashtra. The reason for Parsees coming …

Zoroaster | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › zoroaster


Posts about Zoroaster written by Tamil and Vedas. … Kanchi Paramacharya Swamikal on Zoroaster Kanchi Shankaracharya in his talk in Chennai in 1932 says: …


tamilandvedas.com › 2020/07/09 › parasurama-persia-i…


9 Jul 2020 – tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com … Kanchi Paramacharya (1894-1994) was not only great Saint but also a great linguist. … They decried the Vedas, and through their Prophet Zoroaster (circa 800 BCE) …

tags – Zoroaster, Saka Dwipa, Sun Worship, Iran, Samba, Varaha Mihira, Veda


Compiled by London Swaminathan 


Date: 4 MARCH 2018


Time uploaded in London – 7-57 am


Post No. 4809

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.






Chanakya’s views on Vedas in Chanakya Niti,


Interpreting the scholarship in Veda in a different manner, as also the conduct prescribed in Sastras, speaking bad words for no reason to a peaceful person, people needlessly subject themselves to torment.

–Chanakya Niti 5-11


Success, Accomplishment


The study of the Veda has no meaning without the performance of the sacrifices, the sacrifice has no meaning without the gifts, without intent there is no success or accomplishment. Hence intent is the root cause of all types of success or accomplishments.



The homes that do not have the mud caused by the washing of the feet of the Brahmins, where there is no roaring sound of the Vedas and Sastras (Vedic recitation), nor are the sounds of Svaahaa and Svadhaa, are like cremation grounds.




Penance is performed by all by oneself, study by two together, singing by three in the same way, travel by four in the same manner, cultivation likewise with five and battle with so many put together.






Index to Vedas by Katyayana and Significance of No.432,000! (Post No.4313)

Written by London Swaminathan


Date:18 October 2017


Time uploaded in London- 20-46



Post No. 4313

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.



Hindu civilisation has reached its pinnacles during Vedic period itself.

They wrote the first grammar book and they taught grammar in the Vedic school. And even before Panini of seventh century BCE , they had  umpteen grammarians. We were fortunate enough to get the Book of Panini (Seventh Century BCE), but others were lost.


We wrote the first Nikandu /Thesaurus and we added the Contents and Index to the Vedas, Even the law book written by Manu, was earlier than Hammurabi who lived in 2600 BCE. The latest version of Manu Smrti, we have today is from second century BCE. Since the name of Manu occurs several times in the RV. Manu refers to Sarasvati river, we know he lived at the time of Sarasvati’s mighty flow. Now due to the satellite picture from NASA and Carbon-14 dating of the underground water by the Bhaba Atomic Research Institute, the date of Sarasvati’s disappearance is fixed 2000 BCE or earlier. So Manu who wrote the original book must have lived well before that. He never mentioned Sati, like the RV. During Vedic period, there was no Sati/widow burning. So the original Manu Smrti belongs to Rig Vedic period. This is confirmed by his definition of Brahmavarta and Aryavarta (Manu Chapter 2). He mentioned the rivers Drsadvati and Sarasvati. Aryas included all the four Varnas/castes according to Rig Veda (10-90).


All the anti Shudra verses in the Manusmrti are added to it during the Sunga period. Sunga Kings were Brahmins. Anyone who reads Manu from top to bottom could easily find the interpolated portions. They go against the natural flow of Manusmrti. They are not only controversial but also contradictory.

Beautiful Vedic Index

Katyayana who lived before 600 BCE counted all the hymns, mantras, syllables in the Rik Veda and prepared the Anukramani/ Index. He did a painstaking research and counted everything in the Vedas, leaving no scope for interpolation or corruption.


Sarvanukramani (Rig Vedic Index) of Katyayana gives the first word of each hymn, the number of the verses, the name and the family of the poets, the names of the deities and the metres of the verses. Saunaka did another anukramani based on the Anuvakas.

Yajur Veda has three anukramanis .

And we have anukramanis for Sama and Atharva Veda as well, one each.

It is strange that someone had such a scientific approach 2600 years ago, when most of Europe was semi civilised or barbaric. If some society has reached the heights of philosophical thought around 850 BCE (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad), no wonder they have mastered numbers grammar, linguistics and language.

Significance of 432,000

The number of syllables in the Rig Veda is 432,000.

This number has a great significance in Hinduism

The total number of years in Kali Yuga is 432,000 years. Other Yugas have the multiple of this number.

Half baked and biased foreigners argued that Yuga cycles and the big numbers are added to Hindu scriptures later. Now this number 432,000 and the very big numbers in the Brahmanas prove them wrong

Katyayana’s count of Verses in the RV is 10,662 (minus the appendix- 10,402)

The words in the RV – 1,53,826

We have lost lot of our Vedic literature. Even during Vyasa’s time (3100 BCE+), Vedas had become very bulky and unmanageable. So he divided it into four (Rik, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana) and gave the responsibility of teaching it to the future generations by the word of mouth. It is great wonder that tradition has been maintained until today. Brahmins deserve great admiration for doing this wonderful task.

Even with all the google, internet and computers in our hands,we find it difficult to analyse all the 20,000 plus mantras in the four Vedas, leave alone the very huge Brahmana literature.

Let us salute the great Vedic Seers and the Brahmins





Riddles in the Vedas (Post No.3135)


Compiled by London Swaminathan


Date: 8 September 2016


Time uploaded in London: 16-38



Post No.3135


Pictures are taken from various sources; thanks.


Most of the foreign writers who wrote about Vedas, or in general Hindu scriptures, fall under five categories; so one must be careful before reading any foreigner’s book on Hinduism:-

1.Those who came to propagate their religion

2.Those who colonised our territories

3.Those who want to be on headlines by creating controversies

  1. Half-baked researchers; ignoramuses

5.Those who write for international book companies or to anyone who gives money.

So before buying a book use it as the touch stone. Better read books written by Indian authors except Marxists and atheists. There is no need to say anything about the bluffers who are attached to Marxism or Atheism.


Another touch stone is to see whether these trouble makers have written criticizing about any other religion. To my knowledge they did not write anything against other religions. They are cowards! Most of them are morally corrupt and bankrupt. They can’t be the judges of our culture.

Don’t ask questions about anything before you read a scripture in full. You cannot criticise anything before reading and understanding a book.


Hindu Scholar Subash kak has described the symbolism in the Vedic literature. Here is a small excerpt from his book:


Source book:

The Asvamedha, The Rite and its Logic by Subhash Kak, Delhi, 2002


“The central idea behind the Vedic system is the notion of ‘bandhu’ (bindings or connections) between the astronomical, the terrestrial, the physiological and the spiritual. These connections are described in terms of number of characteristics, such as the 360 bones of the infant (which later fuse into the 206 bones of the adult) and the 360 days of the year. In a similar vein, the Garbha Upanishad says that the body has 180 sutures, 900 sinews. The Brhadaranyaka Upanishad takes the number of Nadis to be 72,000. All these numbers are related to 360, the nominal day count of the year.

Modern research has shown that all life comes with its inner clocks. Living organisms have rhythms that are matched to the periods of the Sun or the Moon.


It is reasonable to assume that the Vedic thinkers were aware of these connections, as were the ancient people in other cultures. The uniqueness of the Vedic vision was the extension of the bindings to the body to those in the inner landscape of the spirit.


The Vedic rites were meant to help the participant transform themselves this was accomplished through sacrifice. The place of sacrifice represents cosmos. Three fires are used which stands for the three divisions of space. The course of the sacrifice represents the year, and all such rituals forms part of continuing annual performances.


The riddle of the sacrifice is best expressed in the Asya Vamasya Hymn (Rig Veda 1-164):

I ask you about the farthest end of the earth

I ask you about the navel of the universe

I ask you about the seed end of the bursting horse

I ask you about the final abode of the speech


This altar is the farthest end of the earth

This sacrifice is the navel of the universe

The Soma is the seed of the bursting horse

This voice is the final abode of speech


The mystery of the sacrifice, with its suspension between life and death, reality and magic, logic and mystical experience is communicated in a language which is full of paradox. For example, it is stated that that Prajapati is Agni’s father, but he is also Agni’s son (SB6-1-2-26); also the gods sacrificed to the sacrifice with the sacrifice (RV 1-164-50)


The sacrifice is the drama associated with it, but rather the transformation accruing from it. Says Kena Upanishad 2-3:

“He by whom Brahma is not known, knows it.

He by whom it is known, knows it not. It is not

Known by those who know it; it is known by those who do not now it”.

Vedic ritual is also related to ongoing struggle, between the Devas and Asuras, where the Devas represent the higher cognitive centres in man and the Asuras represent the lower centres associated with the body.



Unfortunately, to a beginner trying to understand the Vedic system, the asuric position appears most natural and this is responsible for much misunderstanding of Vedic rites and their meaning.


Let me add that the Chandogya Upanishad warns us about those who do not understand that the rite is about paradox and regeneration, and not the actual mechanics of the theatre. It compares the ritual of such people, who look only at the outer performance, to the Udgitha of the dogs. That is what Vaka Dalbya (also called Glava Maitreya) saw of the dog udgita (C.U.1-12)


A white dog appeared and other dogs gathering around him, asked, “Sir, sing and get us food, we are hungry”.


The white dog said to them, “come to me tomorrow morning.”


The dogs came on, holding together, each dog keeping the tail of the preceding dog in his mouth, as the priests do when they are going to sing praises with the Vahispavamana hymn. After they had settled down, they began to say Hin.


Om Let us eat! Om, let us drink!”


The dangers of misreading a highly symbolic language were recognised. The Puranas warn that the asuras copy whatever the devas do and do it on a grander scale.


— Subham–







மறைந்து போன வேதங்கள்! (Post No.3093)


Compiled by London Swaminathan


Date: 26  August 2016


Time uploaded in London: 6-26 AM


Post No.3093


Pictures are taken from various sources; thanks for the pictures.




உலகிலுள்ள பழையமொழிகள் ஒவ்வொன்றும் நிறைய நூல்களை இழந்துள்ளன. எந்த பழைய மொழியும் இதற்கு விதிவிலக்கல்ல. இந்திய மொழிகளில் சம்ஸ்கிருதமும் தமிழும் நிறைய நூல்களை இழந்துவிட்டன. சில நூல்களின் மேற்கோள்களைப் பல உரையாசிரியர்கள் கையாளும்போது அவர் காலத்தில் அந்த நூல்கள் இருந்தது நமக்குத் தெரிகிறது. இன்னும் சில நூற் பெயர்கள் மட்டும் கிடைக்கின்றன. இன்னும் சில ஆசிரியர்கள் பெயர்கள் மட்டும் கிடைக்கின்றன.


உலகில் மிகப் பழைய சமய நூல் ரிக் வேதம் ஆகும். அ தை ஒட்டி யஜூர், சாமம், அதர்வண வேதங்களை வியாசர் தொகுத்து வைத்தார். இந்துக்கள் இற்றைக்கு 5000 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன் அவர் வாழ்ந்ததாகக் கணக்கிடுகின்றனர்.


அவர் ஏன் 4 வேதங்களை த் தொகுத்தார்?

ஏனென்றால் அவர் காலத்திலேயே வேதம் என்பது கடல் போலப் பரந்த இலக்கியம் ஆனது. யார் ஒருவராலும் தனியாக அவ்வளவையும் மனப்பாடம் செய்ய இயலாது என்பது அவருக்கு விளங்கியது. உடனே நான்காகத் தொகுத்து நான்கு சீடர்களை அழைத்து ஒவ்வொருவரும் ஒரு வேதத்தைப் பரப்புங்கள் என்றார். அதிலும் கூட முழு வேதத்தையும் மனப்பாடம் செய்ய முடியாவிடில் ஒரு சாகையை (கிளை) மட்டும் படித்தால் போதும் என்றார். இப்படியெல்லாம் எளிமைப்படுத்தியும் இன்று வேதம் இருக்கும் நிலையை நாம் அறிவோம்.


பிற இலக்கியங்களிலிருன்த்து அழிந்து போன வேத நூல்கள் என்ன என்பதை அறிகிறோம்.



பதஞ்சலி எழுதிய மஹாபாஷ்யம்,  வேதங்களின் எண்ணிக்கை எவ்வளவு என்று சொல்லும். அந்த நூல் குறைந்தது 2100 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முந்தையது.


ரிக் வேதத்தில் 21 சாகைகளும்,

யஜுர் வேதத்தில் 100 சாகைகளும்

சாம வேதத்தில் 1000 சாகைகளும்

அதர்வ வேதத்தில் 9 சாகைகளும்

இருந்ததாக பதஞ்சலி கூறுகிறார்.


முக்திகோபநிஷத், இந்த வேதங்களில் முறையே 21, 109, 1000, 50 சாகைகள் இருந்ததாகக் கூறுகிறது.


எல்லோரும் வேதம் அழிந்துவருவதைக் காட்டி இருக்கின்றனர். இருக்கும் வேதங்களையாவது காப்பாற்றுவது இந்துக்களின் தலையாய கடமை ஆகும்.

1130-க்கும் அதிகமான சாகைகள் இருக்க வேண்டிய இடத்தில் இப்பொழுது 11 சாகைகள்தான் இருக்கின்றன. மேலும் 4 சாகைகளின் சில பகுதிகள் மட்டும் கிடைத்திருப்பதாக அறிஞர் பெருமக்கள் உரைப்பர்.



இப்போதுள்ள நான்கு வேதங்களிலும் 20,000 துதிகள் இருக்கின்றன. உலகில் மற்ற மதத்தினரும், மற்ற மொழியினரும் எழுதுவதற்கு முன்னரே வேதம் கடல் போலப் பரவிவிட்டது. இன்றுவரை, அது கோவில்களிலும், பூஜை, வழிபாடுகளிலும் பயன்படுகின்றன. திருமணச் சடங்குகளிலும் இறுதிச் சடங்குகளிலும் வேத மந்திரங்கள் பயன்படுகின்றன்.



முதல் இலக்கண   நூல்

2700 க்கு ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்னர் பாணினி எழுதிய அஷ்டாத்யாயீ — தான் உலகின் முதல் இலக்கண   நூல். அவர் தனக்கு முந்தைய இலக்கண ஆசிரியர்களின் பெயர்களைச் சொல்லுகிறார். நமக்கோ ஒன்றும் கிடைத்தில.


மனு ஒரு லட்சம் ஸ்லோகங்கள் கொண்ட தர்ம சாஸ்திரத்தை 1080 அத்தியாயங்களாகப் பிரித்து எழுதியதாக நாரத ஸ்ம்ருதி கூறுகிறது.


நாரதர் அதை 12,000 ஸ்லோகங்களாகவும், மார்க்கண்டேயர் அதை 8000  ஸ்லோகங்களாகவும், பிருகுவின் மகன் சுமதி அதை 4000  ஸ்லோகங்களாகவும் குறைத்ததாகக் கூறும். ஆனால் இப்பொழுதுள்ள மனு ஸ்மிருதி 12 அத்தியாயங்களில் 2685 ஸ்லோகங்கள் மட்டுமே இருக்கின்றன.


இதிலிருந்து நமக்குத் தெரிவது என்ன?


Picture of Hindu Yogi/ Saint/ ascetic

கிருத யுகத்தில் எல்லோரும் நல்லவர்கள். அவர்கள் 400 ஆண்டுகள் வாழ்ந்த தாக மனு சொல்லுவார். ஆனால் கலியுகத்தில் இராட்சத புத்தியுள்ளவர்கள் அதிகம். ஆகையால் எல்லாவற்றையும் குறைத்துக் குறைத்து சிறிதாக்கி விட்டனர். திருவள்ளுவரும் கூட ‘எனைத்தானும் நல்லவை கேட்க’ என்பார். ஏதாவது உங்கள் காதில் நல்லது விழட்டும் என்பார். ஆகவே இருப்பதைக் காப்பாற்றிப் போற்றுவது நம் கடமை. யாருக்கு விஷயம் தெரியுமோ அவர்களை ஆதரிப்பதும் நமது கடமை.


மேலும் வெளிநாட்டுக்காரர்கள் நமது சாத்திரங்களுக்குத் தேதி குறிப்பதும் தவறு என்று தெரிகிறது. அவர்கள் குப்தர் காலத்திலும், அதற்கு முந்தைய பிராமண சுங்க வம்ச ஆட்சிக்காலத்திலும் எழுதப்பட்ட புத்தகங்களையும் அதிலுள்ள ஓரிரு குறிப்புகளையும் வைத்து தவறாகக் காலம் கணிப்பர். அதை ஒதுக்கி விடுதல் நன்று.


வேதம் என்றும் வாழ்க என்று கொட்டு முரசே – மஹாகவி பாரதியார்.




Oldest Bribery in the World! Rig Veda speaks of Bribes!!


Research paper No 1954

Written by London swaminathan

Date: 25 June 2015

Uploaded in London at 14-23

I wrote about the Vedic Dog Sarama and the story’s occurrence in various cultures in mutilated or corrupted forms. The hymn in the Rig Veda (10-108) is very interesting in various ways. Here we read about


2.Inducement to change party loyalty

3.Ambassadorial role

4.Dog as human pet

5.Dog employed in detective work

All these show that the Vedic society is well advanced. Earlier I wrote about the Rig Vedic Sabha and Samitis, oldest democratic institutions in the world. All these are my observations.


Here is the Sarama hymn (RV.10-108):–

The hymn, as Griffith notes, “is a colloquy between Sarama, the messenger of the Gods or of Indra …… and the Panis or the envious demons who have carried off the cows or Rays of Light which Indra wishes to recover”.

But, according to Macdonell, the hymn is about “the capture by Indra of the cows of the Panis ….. (who) possess herds of cows which they keep hidden in a cave far beyond the Rasaa, a mythical river. Sarama, Indra’s messenger, tracks the cows and asks for them in Indra’s name, but is mocked by the Panis”.

Clearly there is a basic difference in the above descriptions of the myth, says Shrikant Talageri in his book—“The Rig Veda – A Historical Analysis”.

From Griffith’s translation (R V 10-108):–

“I come appointed messenger of Indra, seeking your ample stores of wealth, O Panis

This has preserved me from the fear of crossing; thus I have made my way over Rasaa’s waters (Sarama said this) 10-108-2

Wat is that Indra like, what is his aspect whose envoy, Sarama, from afar thou comest?

Let him approach, and we will show him friendship; he shall be made the herdsman of our cattle (Panis said this) 10-108-3

Even thus, O Sarama, hast thou come here by celestial might to make the journey

Turn thee not back, for thou shalt be our sister; O Blest One, we will give thee of the cattle (10-108-9)

bribe 2

My comments:


1.From the above three stanzas we come across the word MESSENGER/ENVOY.

This shows that the dogs have detective power to find the hidden cows and the hymn says the dog travelled long distances, even crossed a river. Nowadays we hear amazing animal stories where the dogs travel hundreds of miles to go back to their owners. Probably this is the oldest dog story. Dogs have powerful smelling – 3000 times more powerful than human beings.

2.The second point is that sending an animal as AMBASSADOR. We come across swan as a messenger in the Nala – Damyanti story and later great poet Kalidasa sings about Cloud Messenger in his poem Meghaduta. In the 2000 year old Sangam Tamil poetry and later devotional poetry we see lot of animal and bird messengers to their lovers or God. Probably Rig Veda has the oldest reference to such ambassadors (apostrophes to birds etc).

3.The third point is that Panis were ready to bribe Sarama with some cattle and ready to take her their sister. But Sarama rejected the bribe. Panis were the bad people in this episode.

Later Vedic literature Jaiminiya Brahmana (2-440/442) has a slightly different story, according to Talageri. Here, the cows and are clearly referred to as the cows of the Gods stolen by the Panis. This time, the Gods first send Suparna, the eagle or the Sun Bird. However the Panis BRIBE him into silence, and he accepts their gifts and returns without any information. The enraged Gods strangle him, and he vomits out the curds etc. received from the Panis.

Then the Gods send Sarama. She crosses the River Rasaa and approaches the Panis. She is also offered BRIBES, but (as in the Rig Veda), she refuses their bribes and returns to Indra with the information that the cows are hidden (DETECTIVE WORK) inside the Rasa. She and her descendants are then blessed by a grateful Indra.


4.Dogs are grateful animals. Sarama stick to her loyalty in spite of temptations. Dogs are kept as pets from the Vedic days.

According to Talageri, the myth appears in Brhatdevata (8-24/36). Here the myth develops a curious twist. The same sequence of events take place, but this time Sarama accepts the bribe of the Panis, and apparently transfer her loyalty to them. When she returns to Indra and refuses to disclose the hideout of the cows, Indra kicks her in a rage she vomits out the milk she received as a BRIBE and then goes back trembling to the Panis (Ayaram, Gayaram stories in Indian political field).

We know that all these are symbolic stories of what is happening in Nature. But even if we accept it, the similes such as bribe etc used reflects the ways of life in Vedic days. But the good thing about the bribe is, it is offered by the bad people (Panis). Moreover good people reject it or get punishment for accepting it.


5.Two other notes won’t be out of context here:

Chanakya, the author of Arthashastra, says that like the fish that lives in water drinks water, the government officers take bribe!

There is a Tamil Proverb, “Wont the person who extracted honey (from the honeycomb) lick his fingers?”

So, taking bribes has been there from Vedic days, but it is condemned in the Vedas.

(Bribery pictures are used from various sites;thanks)

Views of Indian Scholars on Translations of the Vedas


Compiled by London swaminathan

Article No.1901; Dated 31 May 2015.

Uploaded at London time: 18-18

“The Rigveda is not only the oldest and hoariest religious text of the oldest living religion in the world today- Hinduism, but also the most authentic record of the Vedic Hindus.

The entire text was kept alive over a long period, almost without change of a tone or a syllable, in oral form recited and memorised from generation to generation. A text which is alive in this manner, as part of a living tradition, cannot be analysed without reference to what that tradition has to say about it”.

About twenty foreign scholars tried their hands on translating the Vedas into European languages from Sanskrit. All of them failed miserably. Indian scholars are able to identify the blunders in foreign translations. Since the foreign “scholars” were not sons of the soil, they could not understand the culture. They came with a motive to undermine the country and Hindu religion. And they believed that the world was created at 9 am on 23rd October 4004 BCE!!!

To understand the foreign psyche, one must read the estimate of Indian scholars:

P Subrahmanya Aiyer, Sanskrit Curator, King’s Library, Bangkok, Siam (Thailand)

Today when the Vedic literature, though venerable as ever, has ceased to offer solace and inspiration to suffering millions, ignorant as they are of its language; when the western scholarship alone – all honour be to them – have taken the trouble of explaining our religious scriptures , imperfectly of course owing to their lack of faith in it , and still more because of their defiance for such accredited scholars as the great Sayana and others; when the weight of controversial religious literature and meaningless babbling for reforms embarrass every sensible man , your translations of a  religious literature which needs no expatiation upon it, marks, I swear with truth, a red letter day in our national history.

(Sent on the occasion of publication Vidhyanandatirtha Maharishi’s Translation of Rig Veda into Tamil, Year 1937).

Following extract is taken from The Rigveda- A Historical Analysis by Shrikant G.Talageri :–

About B K Gosh: The first Mandala falls naturally into two parts: the first fifty hymns have the Kanvas as authors like the eighth Mandala……

Actual fact: 1-1-12, 24-30 (nineteen hymns) are by Viswamitras

1-31-35 (five hymns) are by Angirases

1-12-23, 36-50 (26 hymns ) are by Kanvas

About D D Kosambi: The principal Vedic God is Agni, the god of fire; more hymns are dedicated to him than to any other. Next in importance comes Indra”

Actual fact: The ratio between number of hymns and verses to the two gods, by any count is Indra: Agni=3:2

About Maurice Bloomfield: Under the title “Untrustworthiness of Anukramani statements shown by the repetitions”, Bloomsfield remarks that the statements of sarvanukramani….. betray the dubiousness of their authority in no particular more than in relation to the repetitions………………….

However, the repetitions do not disprove the authenticity of the Anukramanis. The repetitions in the Rigveda are representative of a regular phenomenon in classical and liturgical literature throughout the world.

About Rajesh Kochar: There is even an extreme lunatic fringe which would like to suggest that the Ganga and Yamuna of the Rig Veda are rivers in Afghanistan. A political ‘scholar’, Rajesh Kochar, as part of a concerted campaign to show that the events in the Ramayana took place in Afghanistan, transfers the entire locale of the epic to Afghanistan: Ravana’s Lanka can be a small island in the midst of River Indus…by Vindhyas is meant Baluch Hills, and by sea the Lower Indus. He does this under the cover of examining the geography of the Rig Veda.

mahati vedapatasala

About Griffith’s blunders

Jahnavi is another name of River Ganges. Griffith translates it as as Jahnu’s children (1-116-19) and the house of Jahnu (3-58-6)

The evidence, however, admits only one interpretation. It is River Ganga.

In RV 7-5-3, Griffith mistranslates the name of the River Asikni as dark hued people, thereby killing two birds with one stone: the people of Askini become the dark hued races, thereby wiping out the sense of direction inherent in the reference, while at the same time introducing the racial motif.

Griffith again mistranslates names of the tribes as “armed with broad axes” and the word “praca” as “forward”

(In my post “Conspiracy of Foreign Scholars”, posted on 18th April, 2015, I have given more details of T H Griffith’s mistranslation of the word Arya in Valmiki Ramayana)

Griffith in his foot note to RV 6-61-2, suggests that perhaps Sarasvati is also another name of Sindhu or the Indus.

Griffith, in his footnote to 10-75-5, takes pains to suggest that the poet addresses first, the most distant rivers.  Actual fact is the Eastern most river (Ganga) is the first river.

Bhagwan Sing in his book “ Vedic Harappans”

“No commentator or translator of the Rigveda can be relied upon blindfold; this is more so because both traditional and modern scholars have committed serious blunders in determining the socio- cultural milieu of the Rigveda which had a great bearing on the correct interpretation of a passage. Traditional commentators, working in an age when the social position of merchants had played a hegemonistic role. Western translators could not get reconciled to the fact that a civilization we meet in the disruptions of the Rigveda could have prospered at such an early period. They therefore started with  reductive interpretations—a mistake which was not rectified even after the discovery of Harappan civilization.


Marxist View of Indian History

The trouble with some of the Marxist scholars was that they lifted abstract and absolutist theories from Marxist text books and thrust them on the Vedic society without attaching any importance to the specific character and exclusive features of that society. Before lifting extracts from Morgan and others it should have been seen how many tribal societies governed by chiefdoms had created and cared to preserve in bulk a literature approximating the level of the Rigveda or how many of them had cared to remember the poets of each of the compositions popular in their society, or how many of them living on predatory enterprise had evolved a moral code in which a theft, violence, aggressiveness, arrogance, dependence on unearned income, lying, immodesty in speech and behaviour including even the sins contemplated but not committed, are condemned in the most disparaging terms and propitiated by conscientious persons.

No doubt the Vedic language is terse and almost fossilised. But its terseness is more due to misconceived notions in regard to the cultural level of its authors. If Max Muller wanted to read “the first beginnings of our society” and “the earliest deposit of the Aryan speech” in it, he had on the one hand to treat it as a product of early childhood of our society which it is not, and on the other to eulogize it –“few understand children and still fewer understand antiquity” – and finally to hold that “large number of the Vedic hymns are childish in the extreme; tedious, low, commonplace” as well as “ dead letter to us”.

An overdose of poetry in history can ruin the charm of both. But we do agree with Max Muller when he says that, “No translation in any modern language can do them justice”, and adds that translation in a foreign tongue, and more so in metrical limitations, can compound the plight by new dimensions to inaccuracy.

But the Rigveda is neither a dead letter nor a living word one has to grapple with the text with the help of Sayana and modern translators, though both of them fall short of  our requirement as we have stated at the outset. We find even key words like Devata and Rsi to have been misinterpreted by scholars like Macdonell who had also translated the Brhatdevata in which the terms have been defined.

yajur veda

According to Saunaka, he who speaks in a dialogue is rsi of that verse. In other words Rsi is not necessarily the poet but the character, whether human or sub human or superhuman who is made to utter the dialogue.

Likewise Devata is not a divinity but the subject of the verse, and so it could be a deity, or an action, or an object, or even a vice. That is why we have such entities in the list of rsi names as Indra, Garuda, Vaisvanara, Sarama the dog, Vrsakapi, Indrani, Masa, marbles for gambling, Panis, Atma or soul, Jara or paramour, rivers, fish, Yama, Yami Saptarsi, Snake/sarpa, Sarparajni/chief  female snake, Soma etc. likewise we find in the list of Devatas such objects as Isu/arrow, Jya/bow string, Varma/armour, Grava/pressing stone, Ulukhala/mortar, Musala/pestle, Krsi/agriculture, Dhanu/bow, Asva/horse etc.

If Macdonell mistook them for divinities or gods, we can well understand the state of Vedic studies and the limitations of modern scholars. Likewise, we find in Griffith translating Samudra as ‘flood’ even in contexts where it clearly means ocean, ‘sena’ as host and bhisag as leech. We can imagine how misleading the translations may be, if we do not our selves read the original carefully.

In most of the studies, scholars ignore information which is inconvenient to them lest their thesis gets demolished. Sometimes they dismiss an entire development in one sentence without going into its merits.

So reconciliation of all the crucial points is the real challenge and there lies the key to correct conclusions.