Post No. 9415

Date uploaded in London – –23 MARCH  2021     

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

if u want the article in word format, please write to us.



Did Panini who wrote the first grammar book in the world know South India? Is the question discussed by some who wrote about this issue. Though we have references to South Indian Kings in Ramayana and Mahabharata the date of the scriptures in its present forms is debatable. Panini did not give any grammatical rules quoting South India or the Tamils in particular.

But Katyayana Vararuchi who made notes on Panini’s work refers to Codas, i.e.Chozas and Pandyas. Later Asokan Inscriptions also

tags- bride price, Panini, South India, Pearls in Veda

Hindu Astrology 2700 years Ago: proof from Megasthenes! (Post No.9392)


Post No. 9392

Date uploaded in London – –17 MARCH  2021     

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

if u want the article in word format, please write to us.

The Science of Astronomy and astrology originated in India. The proof for this is in the Rig Veda which is dated between 4500 BCE and 6000 BCE by various scholars on the basis of astronomical references in the Vedas. Herman Jacobi of Germany and Freedom fighter B G Tilak lead this group of researchers.

Hindus are the only community in the world who included astronomy / astrology in day today syllabus. Vedic scholars must study SIX ancillary subjects. They are ….

Siksaa – phonetics – nose of Vedic man/Veda purusa

Vyakarana – grammar – mouth

Nirukta – etymology/lexicon- ear

Kalpa – manual of rituals – hands

Chandas – prosody – foot

Jyotisa – astronomy/ astrology- eye

These are the limbs of Vedic learning. When one mastered all the six……………….

tags- Hindu, astrology, astronomy, Jyotisha, Panini

Origin of Drama in India, No connection with Greece! (Post No.9374)


Post No. 9374

Date uploaded in London – –12 MARCH  2021     

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

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We have discovered a bronze dancing woman statue in Indus-Sarasvati valley civilization. The closest link to that statue is the Rig Veda, which many consider a Pre- Indus book. The amazing figure has the Tri Bhanga (Three Bends) which we see in all the Hindu goddess statues even today. Rig Veda has many references to dancing and singing. All the dialogue poems are nothing but dance dramas.

 In the nook and corner of Tamil Nadu, you my see such sexy (similar to Urvasi- Puruvas dialogue in the Rig Veda) dances in the mid night on the eve of Holi. It is called Kaman Pandikai (Festival of Manmatha) in Tamil Nadu. In Sprig season (Vasanta Rtu) every young couple enjoy such pleasure. But the end message of the festival is Kama will be burnt by Lord Shiva (desire will be annihilated by the worship of Shiva. In the mythology , we see Manmatha is burnt alive by Shiva and he became bodyless/ANANGA.

Most of the encyclopaedias attribute the first and oldest drama to Greece. But Vedic and Ashtadhyayi references explode those myths. According to Panini, ‘Naandhi’ is the first scene which we see even in Kalidasa’s plays. Panini is dated 7th century BCE. He did not know the Buddha and Nanda Vamsa nor Pataliputra. He lived at least 300 years before the Mauryas. Panini’s coinage, weights and measurements, no mentioning of Buddha and Mahavira, his description of Hindu gods, his innumerable comparisons of Chandas/Vedic poems with Sanskrit, that is Basha etc, show Panini lived many centuries before Nandas and Mauryas. Greeks haven’t got the scheme of play that is found in Sanskrit. Neither Nandi/prologue nor National Anthem at the end. All Sanskrit dramas finish with the National Anthem what they called ‘Bharata vakya’. That says ‘Long Live the King; Long Live the Queen. Let all people be Happy; Let the country be Prosperous’. This scheme or structure is absent in Greek dramas.

Kalidasa lived in the first century BCE, which is proved by Tamil Sangam poets. His 200 out of 1500 similes were used by Sangam Tamil poets. Kapilar, the Brahmin who contributed highest number of poems to Sangam corpus imitated Kalidasa in his Kurinjippattu. Even a foreign Tamil student like Rev Dr G U Pope has rightly pointed out this fact.

Half baked western ‘’scholars’’ mis interpreted all dialogue poems in the  Rigveda. Actually they are all dance dramas enacted after Yagas and Yajnas. Panini and Patanjali say that some yajnas lasted for hundreds of years. It is not an exaggeration . Generation after generation continued fire sacrifices. Elsewhere we read that Bharadwaja couldn’t finish mastering all Vedas even after 300 years. Like the Nanda Lamps in the temples Yaga Kundas were burning continuously. Nanda vilakku, lamp, means that which is never extinguished. We see in all Tamil Temples even today.

Here is what Panini and Patanjali say about dramaturgy:-

Panini,who lived before the Greek dramas, mentions ‘Naandi’ , Prologue to a drama in Sutra 3-2-21.

Panini mentioned ‘Silaalin’ as the author of Nata sutras, his students forming the Vedic school of dancing designated as Sailalinah Nataah 4-3-110.

The Sailalakas were originally a Rigvedic charana/school with their own Brahmana book. This is cited in the Apastambha Srauta Sutra. Katyayana who comes 300 years after Panini also knew of this Vedic school as Sailaalaah 6-4-144.

Thus it will be seen that the students of dramaturgy were called SAILAALINAH while those of orthodox Vedic studies were known by the simpler name Sailalah.

The growth of a secular text like the NATA SUTRA under the auspices of a Vedic school shows the scope that Vedic literature gave to new intellectual development not directly connected to religion.

The word Natya Nataka was used through out India. Both were inseparable. Later only dramas with prose only dialogues were written. Tamil words Natya as in Bharata natya and Nataka/drama are all of Sanskrit origin. They are  found in Sangam literature and Tolkappiam. But no ancient Tamil drama survived. Though we read about 11 types of dances performed by Madhavi in Tamil epic  Silapadikaaram they were all Post Sangam materials. They were all Hindu mythological stories. In short we didn’t know anything about ancient Tamil dramas. Instead of Sanskrit Nataka and Natya, Tamil used the word  Kuuthu. But the amazing fact is Tamils did not have any drama for 2000 years! Sanskrit has hundreds of dramas from the days of Bhasa of third century BCE.

Source book:- India as known to Panini, V S Agrawala, 1953; with my inputs


pictures from Kalkshetra, Chennai

Origin of dramas | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › origin-of-dramas


6 Dec 2014 — We have dialogue hymns in the Rig-Veda and several scholars believe those were the first theatrical plays. We have similar dialogues in Egypt.


tamilandvedas.com › 2020/03/24 › dialogue-poems-in-…


24 Mar 2020 — Even the funeral hymns and marriage hymns are only in the tenth mandala. So according to them Hindus did not get married or did not die until …

origin, drama, Panini, Nandi

Tamils followed Panini in 3 more rules (Post No.9370)


Post No. 9370

Date uploaded in London – –11 MARCH  2021     

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

Panini lived 2700 years before Tamil literature came into existence. Oldest Tamil book Tolkappiam written by Tolkappiar, is dated first century CE because he talks about dotted letters.

Other scholars like M. Varadarajan, former Vice Chancellor, placed him in second century BCE. Panini lived in seventh or eighth century BCE. But the amazing thing about his grammar book Ashtadhyayi is , Tamils followed it in several rules.

All Tamil scholars agree that Agastya was the first one who gave a grammar  to Tamil language. His disciple was Tolkappiar. His name was Trunadumagni , a seer, according to the most famous Tamil commentator Nachchinrkiniyar. No wonder he followed Panini.

Previously it was pointed out that he followed Panini in describing the origin of sound, case suffixes and he followed Manu in describing the eight types of marriages and Arthasastra of Kautilya in certain things. Tolkappiar himself admitted that he repeated what his predecessors said. He used the journalistic cliche, ‘they say’, ‘it is said that’ etc in 305 places.

Now I have found more examples to show that he followed Panini in other areas as well.


1).A- kaara and A- kara

The first sutra of Tolkappiam and the first couplet of Tirukkural has ‘A- Kara’ . It means letter A. Panini used this in his sutras. In Sanskrit it is long sound A- kaara. In Tamil it’s short sound A -Kara . No other language has this kara or kaara suffix to a letter.


2).PaniniYAM and Tolkappi YAM

When you want to name a book after its author or on the subject matter you add ‘IYAM’

PaniniYAM- book written by Panini


Indra janan’iya’


are some of the books mentioned by Panini (4-3-88)

Tamils also named books in the same way


Kakkai paatini’YAM’


English is also part of Indo European Languages. So, we find


MiltoniAN scholar etc.


3).Another area where similarity is naming a book after the number of verses it has

Tamils were obsessed with numbers 4,40, 400 and 4000. They named a lot of the 36 books of Sangam and Post Sangam works wih these numbers.

Let us take 400 for example

We have Pura 400/nanuru, Aka 400, Narrinai 400 etc.

Naming a book with numbers is very common in Sanskrit:-

Panchakam, Satakam , astakam, pathikam, Sahasranamam are a few examples

But 2700 years ago, Sanskrit scholars used this.

Satapata Brahmana – book with 100/ sata  chapters.

Kaushitaki Brahmana was called 30 chapter book

Aitareya Brahma was called 40 chapter book

So naming a book with number also came from a common source from Vedic days.

Recent Post on Tolkappiam:–


tamilandvedas.com › 2021/02/27 › 5…


27 Feb 2021 — Agreement between Tolkappiam and Sanskrit works on Grammar. BY S N Sri Rama Desikan. (FOLLOWING MATTER IS FROM AN OLD …


tags- Tamils, Panini, naming book,

Hindu Women’s Education 2700 Years Ago! (Post No.9366)


Post No. 9366

Date uploaded in London – –10 MARCH  2021     

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

Amazing information about education of women during post-Vedic period is available from Panini’s Ashtadhyayi and the commentaries on it. When Panini wrote his grammar 2700 years ago, very few literary or religious works were there in other parts of the world. I am not talking about the museum languages of Egypt, Babylonia or Mayan. Sanskrit lives in all the languages of India. No one can speak even for a few minutes without Sanskrit words. Either his/ her name or their birth places or their patents names will be in Sanskrit.

I am a regular reader of articles on tribes of India. All the tribes have something Hindu or some words in Sanskrit. Half baked foreigners could not digest it and so created a new theory it was because of later contacts. Those who follow tribal birth, death and wedding rites find that they are based on Hindu beliefs ; like the civilised city Hindus have different birth, death and marriage customs they also differ in several rites.

Women in ancient India went to school with boys and achieved good qualifications. Here is the solid proof.

Tamil poetess Avvaiyar lived 2000 years ago in Tamil Nadu. She could go to any kings’ assembly and praise him or criticise him. She saw three great kings of Chera, Choza and Pandya on the dias after the Choza king performed Rajaasuya Yaga. She blessed them whole heartedly and advised them to live without enmity. Apart from Avvaiyar we have about atlesasst 20 Tamil poetesses.

 About twenty Vedic poetesses lived 2000 years before the Tamils came on the scene. Most famous woman’s name is Gargi Vachaknavi. She took part in the All India Philosophers conference and challenged the famous scholar Yajnavalkya in front of Emperor Janaka. And this is not an isolated anecdote.

Information from Ashtadhyayi, is very interesting.

Aapisaali was a Pre Paninian scholar. Katyayana who wrote notes on Panini’s sutras refers to students studying his (Apisali) grammar. Patanjali even speaks of female Brahmana students of Aapisaali.

Both Panini and Patanjali refer to women admitted to Vedic study in the Charanas (Institutions like Oxford and Cambridge) . The term Jaati in sutra 4-1-63 includes the female members of gotras and charanas.

Thus a woman student of Katha School was called ‘Kathi’ and of the Rig Vedic Bahvrichi school, ‘Bahvrichii’. It appears that the three principles of naming the male students applied equally to the female students also.

Both panini and Patanjali called the female students of Aapisaala as ‘Aapisaalaa braahmanii’ . Katyayana here refers to the rule of a previous writer; similarly Kasika refers to Paaniniya Braahmanii.

Female students were also admired to study of Mimaamsa.

Example, Kaasakrstnii, a female student studying the Mimamsa work Kaaskrstnii

Panini himself  refers to female students as Chaatrii and their hostels Chhaatri saalaa. 6-2-86

The wife of an aacharya is Aachaaryaanii 4-1-49. Female teachers were called ‘aachaaryaa’. (Note different spellings for teacher’s wife and female teacher).

The term Kathi – vrindarikaa , the foremost female student of the Katha Saakhaa, points to the success of women as Vedic students.

Patanjali refers to a female student as Adhyetrii and a female novice as Maanavikaa 4-1-93; 2-249.

Manava and Manavi are used in Tamil until this day!

In another place Panini talks about ‘Kumaari Sramana’, a female  ascetic of young age. This was in the Pre Buddhist literature. Buddhists allowed women later .

The terms Bikshu, Nirvana and Kumari sramana are in Pre Buddhist literature, the Upanishads. Ancient Hindu literature did not mention Buddha.

Patanjali and other commentators mocked at students who were not interested in studying. They were compared to crows that bathe for a few seconds and fly. Like French Bath, Hindus have the idiom ‘Crow Bath’. In that context commentators mentioned some students are coming to school just to ‘see girls’. Probably co- education existed in Gurukula at the time of Panini and Patanjali.

Putting all these together give us a clear picture of women’s education in ancient India.

Later , Vatsyayana of Kamasutra listed 64 subjects in woman’s syllabus. That is the first syllabus for women in the world. So, we see the development of education in India.

Tamil language produced Six Avvaiyars in different periods and Saint poets like Karaikkal Ammaiyar and Andal.

(Avvai means a spiritually advanced, matured woman, probably  not married; like Kumari Sramana of Panini’s book)

Later we see scholars Lilavathi and Gangadevi. Women’s education stopped only when foreigners entered India.

Source book- India as known to Panini, V S Agrawala with my inputs.


tags-  women’s education, ancient India, Panini, Patanjali



Post No. 9019

Date uploaded in London – –10 DECEMBER 2020      

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge;

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

2700 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்னர் தமிழ், ஆங்கில சொற்கள் – பகுதி 2

Let us continue with Panini’s Ashtadhyayi ……

Sutra 1-2-24

Vanch – Vengeance – punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong..

English meaning has changed a little bit. But

Tamil and Sanskrit have similar meanings = cheating someone  வஞ்சி, ஏமாற்று

Lunch – seize, take it forcefully – English – loot


Sutra 1-2-25

Thrush – thirst , thirsty thaakam in Tamil தாகம்


sutra 1-2-57 thulyam – thulaa rasi, thulai/tharasu

thulyamaka துல்யம் – துலை /தராசு , துல்யமாக சொன்னான்


Sutra 1-2-68

Brathru – brother

Svasru – sister

Duhitru – daughter

Putra – son  புதல்வன்


Sutra 1-2-70

Pitru – pithaa – father; also Peter

Matru – maathaa – mother

Jagatha pitharau – parents of the world – Raghuvamsa 1-1

Parents – பெற்றோர் – பிதரெள – பேரண்ட்ஸ்


Sutra 1-3-10 sama = same – saman /tirukkural சம, சமன் செய்து….குறள்


Sutra 1-3-16

Itharethara – ithara – this athars- other person


Other /person இது, இவர் ;அது அவர் ;


1-3-21 sakata

Cart goes kata, kata , so saகட கட என்று வண்டி ஓடியது kata கட கட என்று வண்டி ஓடியது

Manavaka – student – மாணவர் / க

Cock – குக்கூ என்றது கோழி – குறுந்தொகைப் பாடல்


1-3-22  thishta – Stand



Beg – Bikshu –பிச்சை

பிச்சை எடுப்பவன் பிக்ஷு

பிரம்மச்சாரிகள் படிக்கும் காலத்தில் வீடு வீடாகச் சென்று

‘பவதி பிக்ஷாம் தேஹி’ என்று கேட்பார்கள்.


1-3-27 thapah

P = v in tamil – thava – see tirukkural

தபஸ் – தவம் / ஒளிவிடு

தானம் தவம் இரண்டும் — குறள்


உத்தபதே வித்யாய வித்யார்தீ = படிப்பாளி  தன் கல்வியினால் ஒளிவிடுகிறான்



Han – kill ; hunt; hunter

Brahmahathi – murder of a brahmin  killing a brahmin

ஹன் = கொல் ; பிரம்ம ஹத்தி தோஷம் ; பிராமணனைக் கொல்வதால் உண்டாகும் தோஷம்

ஹத் = பட் = பட்டான் = கொல்லப்பட்டான் – பட்டான்

இறந்துபட்டான் ; நடுகல் கல்வெட்டுகளில் ‘பட்டான்’ உள்ளது

ரஜ்ஜு – கயிறு

10 கல்யாணப் பொருத்தங்களில் கயிறு / தாலிப் பொருத்தம் எல்லா ஜாதிகளுக்கும் முக்கியம்

Rajju – rope

To be continued……………………………….

tags- amil words 2700 years ago-2, Panini ,


pictures are from Grand Anaicut in Tamil Nadu; taken by London swaminathan


Post No. 8886

Date uploaded in London – –3 NOVEMBER 2020   

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge;

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

All of us know that a Hindu marriage is legally done , completely done, only when the couple takes Seven Steps together. Please see my links to previous articles on SEVEN STEPS.

 I also wrote about the oldest and the most famous Chola king KARIKALAN (SIMILAR TO KALMASHA PADAN OF HINDU MYTHOLOGY).


Three things show that he was competing with the oldest Pandya king Mudukudumi Peruvazuthi of Purananuru, who established YUPA polls through Pandya kingdom by doing Yagas and Yajnas. Oldest Tamil verse says Pandyan emperor would bow his head  only on  TWO occasions:-

One time to Brahmins

Another time during circumambulation of Siva Temple.

Karikal Choza was similar in many respects.

1.He constructed Yaga Kunda in Eagle shape as prescribed in the Vedas

2.He sent Wind Sailed Ships and controlled the whole of Indian Ocean.

He knew the monsoon and used it fully, says Purananuru. Ships that went with sails are in the oldest book in the Rig Veda as well.


(Please see the references and my 10 year articles about how Ravana easily went to Patna and Himalayas by using monsoon; also Rajatarangini says that Kashmiri kings invaded Sri Lanka using Returning Monsoon)

Karikal Choza (Chola) is dated first century BCE and Panini is dated 8th century BCE.


Now I am reading the Tamil translation of Panini’s Ashtadhyayi for the second time. The Translation was done by Dr K Meenakshi of Pune and published in three parts by World Tamil Research Institute, Chennai-600 113

Panini Sutra 5-2-2

Saapta padheenam sakyam

The commentator says (I think it is from Mahabashya of Patanjali) that walking seven steps together and saying seven words mean firm Friendship. That is the definition of Friendship.

It is also in Rig Veda’s Wedding Mantras. (see my links below)

What Panini said 2700 years ago was followed by Karikal Choza, the gretaest of the Choza Race. Other Vedic rites such as Eagle shaped Yaga  Kunda (Fire Sacrifice Altar) also confirm he was out and out a follower of the Vedas.

Thanks to Panini we come to know the greatness of Number Seven

In Indus-Sarasvati River Bank civilization we see more seals with Number 3 and Number 7 which confirms that it is Hindu Civilization.


Purananuru verse 224 – Eagles Shaped Yaga Kunda

Porunar Atruppadai – lines 165-167 Walking Seven Steps during Farewell Ceremony

Purananuru verse 66 – Using Wind for sailing ; knowledge of Sailors and Monsoon.

Seven Steps | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › seven-steps


20 Jul 2016 — Posts about Seven Steps written by Tamil and Vedas. … The seven steps are the seven grades of life. Compare this with the seven ages of life …

walking 7 steps | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › walking-7-steps


8 Nov 2016 — Posts about walking 7 steps written by Tamil and Vedas. … The next ceremony is called saptapadi or seven steps. This is the most important …

கரிகால் சோழன் | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › கரிக…


18 Jan 2012 — கரிகால் சோழன் வேத நெறி தவறாது ஆண்டவன். 2000 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன் ஆண்ட இவன் சோழ மன்னர்களில் மிகவும் புகழ்பெற்றவன். இவன் …

கரிகாலன் வரலாறு கூறும் …

tamilandvedas.com › 2015/01/23


23 Jan 2015 — காண்க: கரிகால் சோழனின் பருந்து வடிவ யாக குண்டம், ஜனவரி 18, 2012. 2.கரிகாலன், ரிக் வேத மந்திரத்தில் சொன்னபடி, ஏழு அடி …

கரிகாலன் | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › கரிக…


29 May 2018 — பாடலின் பொருள் : சோழ மண்டலத்தை ஆண்ட மன்னர்களுள் திறமை வாய்ந்த மன்னனான கரிகால் சோழன் தன் உயிர் பிழைத்தல் காரணமாக …

கரிகாலன் மகள் | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › கரிக…


8 Mar 2017 — ஆதி மந்தி என்பவள் கரிகால் சோழனின் அருந்தவப் புதல்வி; அவள் ஒரு … சோழன் மகள் ஆதி மந்தியும், சேர நாட்டரசனும், ஆதியின் …

நீண்ட காலம் ஆண்ட மன்னன் …

tamilandvedas.com › 2015/01/21


21 Jan 2015 — இவர்களில் யார் காவிரியில் அணை கட்டிய கரிகாலன் என்பது … ஏனெனில் சோழர்களின் தலை நகராக தஞ்சாவூர் உருவாநது மிகவும் …

கரிகாலச் சோழன் | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com › tag › கரிக…


30 Apr 2018 — கரிகாலன் என்ற சோழனின் மகளுக்கு பெரிய வலிப்பு நோய் வந்தது. எத்தனையோ வைத்தியர்கள் தம்மால் இயன்ற வைத்தியம் செய்து …

சோழர்கள் | Tamil and Vedas

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15 Jul 2013 — சேரர்களுக்கு முன்பாக பாண்டியர் பெயரும் சோழர் பெயரும் … கரிகால் சோழன் பருந்து (கழுகு) வடிவ யாக குண்டம் அமைத்து …

தாம்ரலிப்தி | Tamil and Vedas

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22 Sep 2014 — இந்தியர்களுக்குப் பருவக் காற்றின் ரகசியம் தெரியும். … உனது முன்னோர்கள் காற்று இயக்கும் திசையை அறிந்தே அதற்கான …

tags — Panini, Karikal Choza, Karikalan, Seven Steps



Post No. 8793

Date uploaded in London – –9 OCTOBER 2020   

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

Though Panini wrote a grammar book we get amazing information about the rivers, mountains, hills, wells, crops and cities in ancient India from his own work and commentaries and supplementary attached to his book. Greek sources also confirm it. So, we get a clear picture of North India. But we must remember it is only the information about famous and big cities and ports and commercial centres and holy cities. India has over 600,000 towns. Even Kabilar, a Tamil poet who composed highest number poems in 2000 year old Sangam Tamil literature says Pari, a Tamil philanthropist, owned 300 towns in his small Parambu country. It is in Purananuru of Sangam corpus.  If Pari can own 300 towns in a small area of Tamil Nadu there is no wonder that North India had 750 known cities 2700 years ago or even before that.

That ancient  India possessed a large number of cities or towns is also attested to by Greek writers. According to them Punjab was full of towns , centres of industry and economic prosperity. Many of these figured as forts or centres of defence such as the famous town of Massage – Masakaavati- or Aornos – Varanass in the country of the Asvakas. Many towns had a population of 5000 to 10000.

Strabo said that in the territories of the nine nations situated between the Jhelum and Beas, such as the Malloi, Oxydrakai and others , there were 500 cities.

Megasthenes makes the following general statement on the cities of Mauryan India—

“Of their cities it is said that the number is so great that it cannot be said with precision”.

Greeks did not exaggerate and that is known from the lists attached to the two sutras 4-2-75 and 4-2-80 we have about 500 names. If we add the towns from Ghanas we will get the names of 750 towns.

The grammatical literature is now a valuable source of information regarding the old and forgotten cities of India. This literature like Yuan Chwang’s Travels has preserved landmarks .

Famous breed of dogs in Ramayana and Panini

The Ghanapatha gives a list of 500 towns. Of them one is Saubhuta  4-2-75.

It is usually identified with the kingdom of Sophytes mentioned by the Greek writers. The place is especially noted by the Greeks for a ferocious breed of dogs whose fame spread to Greece even before Alexander’s time. Ramayana also refers to similar dogs bred in the Kekaya country  of the Salt Range. It describes them as bred in the royal kennels , strong like tigers, big in size and with big teeth. It was probably the breed of dogs that was referred to by PaninI as Kauleyaka – 4-2-96. Saubhuta was thus a  part of Kekaya in the Salt Range.

tags–750 towns, cities, breed of dogs, Panini




Post No. 8772

Date uploaded in London – –4 OCTOBER 2020   

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

There are very interesting similarities in Panini’s grammar and Tamil literature. Let us look at some of them today.

(I have already given the Tamil examples in my Tamil article)

Naming women is explained in several sutras of Ashtadhyayi of Panini. It is a common knowledge that feminine names in Sanskrit which are used by all the Hindus from Kanyakumari to Kashmir, end with ‘ee’ or ‘aa’.

Examples :

Savitrii , Gayatrii , Smrtii, Sruthii, Gitaa, Lathaa, Maayaa, Vidhyaa

Numerology and lack of knowledge in Sanskrit changed the spellings in many cases. But the original spellings are intact in our Tamil and Sanskrit literature.

Tamils’ names also ended with ‘e’ or ‘ee’ sounds.

Examples :

Aadhimanthi ,Kannaki ,Madhavi , Punithavathy, Tilkavathy ,Vasuki , Bhagavathy, Angayar kanni( Goddess Minaakshii) , Paandimaadevii (Pandya Queen), Kaamakkannii (Goddess Kamakshii)

Though some of these are Sanskrit names they are attested in the oldest Sangam book Purananuru. Other names were used from second century CE.

Even when Tamils used ‘aa’ ending names, they followed a rule to change them in to ‘ai’ ending names.

Examples :

Giitaa  becomes Gitai; Siataa becomes Siitai,

Even Sangam Tamil literature have Nachellai, Nappasalai, Nappinnai etc.

The ‘E’ ending names do not stop there ; it goes deeper and deeper which shows the deep connection between Tamil and Sanskrit. Here we go with more examples

Panini shows us the way to create feminine names from masculine names; Panini gives us examples:-

Bhava – Bhavaanii

Rudra – Rudraanii

Indra – Indraanii

Shiva – Shivaanii and so on.

Tamils follow the same rule in Sangam Tamil literature which is at least 2000 year old. And Panini is 2700 years old according to Goldstucker.

Kuravan – Kurathi

Kizavan – Kizathi

Maravan – Marachi

Idaiyaan- Idaichi

Aayan – Aaychi

The list goes on and on.

What does it show?

Tamil and Sanskrit came from one source , that is Lord Shiva, and it is attested from 1400 year old Thevaram and the latest  Bharati poems.  It is natural that a language will be influenced by another language spoken in the neighbourhood. But Tamil and Sanskrit do not fall under that category. The connection is deeper. The Sandhi (joining and combining) rules are followed in Tamil and Sanskrit even today. These are the only two ancient languages that follow sandhi rules. More similarities are seen in case suffixes. And I have discovered 30 Tamil words in Pre-Alexander Greek literature. These things torpedo all the theories put forward by our so called linguists.

The very classification of Tamil and its sister languages as Dravidian family is wrong. It is part of Indian languages. If linguistic idiots can argue Brahui and Tamil are related to one another, one can say Tamil and Sanskrit are one and the same.

No scholar can show us more than three Tamil words in Brahui. In all the so called Northern, Middle and Sothern Dravidian languages there are more than 90 percent Sanskrit based words. If there is anything new, that is very minimal. Suppose one decides to remove all Sanskrit based words from these so called Dravidian languages, the languages would disappear. Only Tamil would survive; but like virus affected software or looking  like a severely wounded soldier. No two clocks agree, and similarly no two languages are similar. The differences will always be there. And one can show some similarities between any two languages in the world. That wouldn’t mean that they belong to same group.

I will show more NEW similarities between Tamil and Sanskrit in another article.

-Long Live Tamil–

tags– Panini, naming



Post No.7923

Date uploaded in London – 4 May 2020   

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

Great Sanskrit scholars like Bhandrakars and Goldstucker dated Panini around 8th century BCE. His coinage which Arthasastra doesn’t know also place him well before Kautilya of fourth century BCE . So whatever he said becomes very important to decide the chronology of many things. One such thing debated by the scholars is his knowledge about Tamil Nadu. He covered several thousand square miles of north India from Afghanistan to Assam in the north and up to Asmaka country in the South on River Godavari.

But for one who reads deeply it becomes clear that he knew the South of India up to land’s end. In one sutra he mentioned black peppercorns and honey coming through the land route. The long list of articles he mentioned in several sutras shows his vast knowledge in economics, commerce, trade routes and wealth of the community.

And supporting evidence comes from Buddhist Jataka tales. Earlier people like Bodhayana and Yaska also talk about south India. Epics Mahabharata and Ramayana mentioned the customs of Southerners.

We have very clear references to the Tamil kingdoms in the inscriptions of Emperor Asoka and Orissa King Kharavela.

First let us look at the trade routes.

Panini  wrote only a grammar book, but yet his references and the commentaries on his book give us very interesting information.

He mentioned roads leading from one city to another city- sutra 4-3-85

Katyayana in his comments mentioned kantara pathika, that is the forest route. In addition to it, he listed Jangala patha, Vari patha and Sthala patha, and they are routes via jungle thickets, water and land. We also hear about Aja patha- goat track, Sanku patha- narrow mountain paths.

In the Devapathathi Gana 5-3-100 we hear about more interesting routes Hamsa patha and Deva patha which relate to air.

He might have meant air -plane route used by Rama, Ravana and Kubera. Or it may be routes used by the migratory birds. Or it may be the routes used by the Siddhas with supernatural powers. We have literary evidence to support every one of the above.

Kalidasa goes one step ahead and listed three different air routes depending upon the height. While returning to Ayodhya from Sri Lanka by thought powered air -plane the three routes are explained in

Raghuvamsa 13-19. He refers to Sura \ Deva patha, Ghana patha and Kagapatha.

My comments

Even a Tamil book that came about 250 years ago mentioned air routes used by siddhas with super natural powers (Tiru Kutrala Kuravanji by Tri Kuta Rasappa Kavirayar).

Raja patha is still the road name in several Indian cities.

English word path also came from Sanskrit ‘patha’.

Now to this particular sutra regarding the black peppercorns and honey—

Kerala known as Chera Nadu 2000 years was the main exporter of peppers. When Panini mentioned it in sutra 5-1-77,

He must have remembered Kerala.

Black Pepper corns from Tamil speaking Chera nadu (now Malayalm speaking Kerala) went up to Rome and Greece. Till today Kerala exports to other places.



Sutra 4-3-84 is about the gem-stone Vaidurya, known as cats eye.

It said that it was available in Valavaya mountains and polished at Vidura town and so it was called Vaidurya .

We have some references to Vaidurya, Beryls and others  exported from Coimbatore inT amil Nadu. So we may conclude that pepper and gemstones were exported via Coimbatore about 3000 years ago.

V S Agrawala adds more supporting information—

“As pointed out by Keith, Yaska already mentions a southern use of the Vedic word ‘Vijaamatri’ for a son in law who pays to his father in law the price of the bride.

Vijaa maateti sasvad Dakshinaajaahaa kriitapatim aachaksate

—Nirukta 6-9

My comments

Sangam Tamil literature and later Tamil literature confirm this bride price.

“Secondly, the Deccan was the home of Sanskrit as early as Katyayana’ s time whom Patanjali regards as a southerner on account of his partiality for the Tadhita.

Priya taddhitaahaa Daakshinatyaahaa

(Katyayana lived around 4th century BCE.)

“Thirdly, Panini besides referring to the sea and the islands lying near the coast and in mid ocean , actually mentioned that portion of the country which lies between the tropics as

Antarayana desa 8-4-25

It can refer only to Deccan lying south of the Tropic of Cancer, which passes through Kutch and Avanti.”

My comments

Sri Lankaan history book ‘Mahavamsa’ gives more information about the marriages that took place between the royal families of Madurai Pandyas and the first king Vijaya of Sri Lanka. It happened in the sixth century BCE, not far from Panini’s time

So it is very clear that North Indians had a very good knowledge of Southern India and its peoples.

Tags– Panini , Black pepper, Land routes, Yaskar, ,bride price, Katyayana, ,Taddhita