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Purananuru (Tamil Sangam Book) wonders -2; Upanishad and Kalidasa in verse Two! (Post.15,278)

Written by London Swaminathan

Post No. 15,278

Date uploaded in London –  16 December 2025

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

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Item 260

Taittirīya Upaniṣad describes the five “sheaths” of a person (Sanskrit: puruṣa), starting with the grossest level of the five evolving great elements:

From this very self did aether come into being; from aether, air; from air, fire; from fire, water, from water, the earth; from the earth, organisms; from organisms, foods; and from foods, people. Different from and lying within this people formed from the essence of foods is the self consisting of lifebreath. Different from and lying within this self consisting of breath is the self consisting of mind. Different from and lying within this self consisting of mind is the self consisting of perception. Different from and lying within this self consisting of perception is the self consisting of bliss.[4]

In the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad, the deities is identified as the source of the great elements:

Some wise people say it is inherent nature, while others say it is time – all totally deluded. It is rather the greatness of deities present in the world by means of which this wheel of brahman goes around. Whom always encompass this whole world – the knowers, the architects of time, the ones with and without qualities, and the all-knowing ones – it is at their commands that the work of creation, to be conceived of as earth, water, fire, air, and aether, unfolds itself.[5]

The same Upanishad also mentions, “When earth, water, fire, air and aether arise, when the five attributes of the elements, mentioned in the books on yoga, become manifest then the yogi’s body becomes purified by the fire of yoga and they are free from illness, old age and death.” (Verse 2.12).

(from Wikipedia)

***

Tamil Sangam Book Purananuru Wonders- 2

Ancient Tamil Encyclopaedia -42; One Thousand Interesting Facts -Part 42

***

261

Purananuru verse two is very important from many angles. First and foremost is the science matter about five elements is from the Taittriya Upanishad. All the main Upanishads are written before Buddha (600 BCE). The same order of Five Elements is in modern science as well. First there was empty space (ether) a Big Bang (sound) happened billions of years ago. Then came the fire and water. Lastly the earth appeared and from water the living beings appeared. This order is seen in the Dasavatara stories as well.

262

Second important points is, Who is this Murinjiyur Mudi Nagarayar ?

His name is Mr Nagarajan. But if you give importance to Mudi (Crown or Hair), then it is Lord Siva who has a snake/Naga on his head. This was copied by Egyptian Pharaohs from the Hindus.

263

Third important point is NagaRAYar. We see the J is tamilized as Y. I have been arguing throughout my writings J was used only by Vedic Hindus. If one finds the migratory route of this letter J, one can easily find how Hindus spread their language throughout the earth. No ancient language has this J sound .

Another point is Western Scholars(??!!) have been arguing that letters J and Y were written in the same way and thus we get Yesu as Jesus, Yudha as Jew etc. I have shown this is absurd and here in the second verse also we see J becoming Y. This is Sanskrit grammar.

265

One more important point is look at the expressions

Three Fire of Brahmins

Four Vedas of Brahmins

Kanchana Srnga Himalaya (now they write it Kanchanjunga)= PorKottu imayam in Tamil.

Five Elements and Five Virtues

Each of the five elements has one power. That is compared with the powers of king which is also seen Sanskrit literature before Sangam literature.

266

Last but not the least The Big Controversy!

Here commentators wrongly suggested the Five and the Hundred mentioned in the verse refers to 5 Pancha Pandavas and Kauravas (100). And the lines say that the Chera king supplied food for both. Even scholars who don’t believe Kaliyuga date of 3102 BCE wrote that the Mahabharata war must have fought around 1500 BCE. This Chera king wont fit into that time frames.

According to historical scholars we need at least five kings for every century. For 1500 years in BCE period, we need at least 75 Chera Kings or at least Tamil kings. We don’t have any such thing in Sangam literature.

The word PERUNCHORU misinterpreted

The verse says that the Chera king gave both the Fives and the Hundreds (Pandavas and Kauravas) PERUNCHORU. Literal translation of this word is Big Cooked Rice (food).

267

The Hindu tradition is that if someone dies, they offer the Pitrs/ departed souls RICE BALLS on the death anniversary. This is called Perunchoru and Pindam in Sanskrit. I am not interpreting it out of my imagination. The same word PERUNCHORU occurs in (புறநானூற்றில் பெருஞ்சோறு 220, 235, 261) Puram 220,235,261 all these are elegy poem. Morever the Purapporul Venbamalai used the word Pindam which is food served in funeral rites.

Chera/Kerala King Uthiyan Cheralathan was praised as one “who provided BIG food” for the Pandavas and Kauravas (lot of people took it for actual feeding. But the word Big Food (Perunchoru பெருஞ்சோறு in Tamil) means big feast given in memory of the dead.

268

More Pancha Bhuta references:

Pari. 3-4; 3-66; 3-77. Pari.13-18; 24-15

Mathur. -line 453; Puram-2- 1; 20-1; 51-1;55-15

Pathitr- 14-1; Kurun.3-1.

Tol -305; Murukku. Line 254

The strange coincidence is, all the poets use the Pancha Bhuta matter in the very beginning of the poems.

Post Sangam book – Tiruk Kural 271

269

Earliest Anthathi

The first 5 lines gives us the first sample of Anthaathi genre (last word of the previous line should be the first word of the next line in Antham + Aathi. Both Sanskrit words!)

270

Kalidasa Echo

The poet is well versed in Kalidasa who lived in Second Century BCE. In his first ten verses of Kumarasambhava Kalidasa described the beautiful Golden Peaked Himalaya. And in the first ten verses of Raghuvansa described the glory of Raghu dynasty where he says they rule extended up to oceans.

***

மண் திணிந்த நிலனும்,

நிலம் ஏந்திய விசும்பும்,

விசும்பு தைவரு வளியும்

வளித் தலைஇய தீயும்,

தீ முரணிய நீரும், என்றாங்கு

ஐம்பெரும் பூதத்து இயற்கை போலப்

போற்றார்ப் பொறுத்தலும், சூழ்ச்சியது அகலமும்

வலியும், தெறலும், அணியும், உடையோய்!

நின்கடற் பிறந்த ஞாயிறு பெயர்த்தும்நின்

வெண்தலைப் புணரிக் குடகடல் குளிக்கும்

யாணர் வைப்பின், நன்னாட்டுப் பொருந!

வான வரம்பனை! நீயோ, பெரும!

அலங்குளைப் புரவி ஐவரோடு சினைஇ,

நிலந்தலைக் கொண்ட பொலம்பூந் தும்பை

ஈரைம்பதின் மரும்பொருது, களத்து ஒழியப்

பெருஞ்சோற்று மிகுபதம் வரையாது கொடுத்தோய்!

பாஅல் புளிப்பினும், பகல்இருளினும்,

நாஅல் வேதநெறி திரியினும்

திரியாச் சுற்றமொடு முழுதுசேண் விளங்கி,

நடுக்கின்றி நிலியரோ வத்தை; அடுக்கத்துச்,

சிறுதலை நவ்விப் பெருங்கண் மாப்பிணை,

அந்தி அந்தணர் அருங்கடன் இறுக்கும்

முத்தீ விளக்கிற், றுஞ்சும்

பொற்கோட்டு இமயமும், பொதியமும், போன்றே!

****

Note Five Bhutas, For Vedas, Three Fires !

(Following is taken from Vaidehi Herberts translation)

Puranānūru 2, Poet Muranjiyur Mudinākanār sang to Cheraman Perunchōtru Uthiyan

Cheralathan

Your nature is like the five elements – the earth filled with sand,

the sky raised above the earth, wind that blows in the sky, fire that

sweeps up the wind, and water that differs from that fire.

You tolerate your enemies and your deliberation is broad.  You are

strong, destructive and merciful.  The sun rises from your ocean

and descends into your ocean in the west with waves topped with white surf.

………, or the four Vedas swerve from

………………

May you never be shaken like Mount Pothiyam, like the Himalayas with its

golden summits, where long-eyed does sleep on the slopes near their fawns

with tiny heads, at dusk, in the light of three fires lit by the Brahmins

who perform difficult rituals!

–Subham—

Tags- Tamil Sangam Book Purananuru Wonders- 2, Ancient Tamil Encyclopaedia -42; One Thousand Interesting Facts -Part 42, Upanishad, Kalidasa

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Who coined the words, Bhava Sagaram? and Samsara Sagaram? (Post No.15,260)


Indian Prime Minister Modi Unveils 800 Kg Gita at Delhi Temple, year 2019.

Written by London Swaminathan

Post No. 15,260

Date uploaded in London –  10 December 2025

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

https://www.pustaka.co.in/home/author/london-swaminathan

xxxx  

We come across these words of Birth and Death as ocean and crossing it to attain liberation, in the Bhagavad Gita for the first time which is over 5000 years old.

Then Kalidasa used this as a simile in the Raghuvamsa which is from the Sunga Vamsa period , first century BCE. Later Tiru Valluvar used this word in his Tirukkural; Valluvar not only used this, but also copied more things from the Gita. Then we hear it in Tiruupugaz of Arunagirinatha and composition of Saint Tyagaraja.  There may be many more saints and poets who have used these words.

Samsarasagara in Hinduism symbolizes the endless cycle of birth and rebirth within the illusionary realm, portrayed as an expansive sea, representing the ongoing journey of the soul through various existences.

***

Pronunciation guide sagaram= saagaram; samsara=samsaara.

Here is the Bhagavad Gita verse

तेषामहं समुद्धर्ता मृत्युसंसारसागरात् ।

भवामि नचिरात्पार्थ मय्यावेशितचेतसाम् ॥ १२-७॥

teṣāmahaṃ samuddhartā mṛtyusaṃsārasāgarāt

bhavāmi nacirātpārtha mayyāveśitacetasām 12-7

Meaning

These whose thoughts are set on me , I straightaway  deliver from the ocean of death bound existence, O Patha – 12-7

Another translation

O son of Prthaa, for them who have  their minds absorbed in Me , I become, without delay, the Deliverer from the sea of the world which is fraught with death.

***

Kalidasa says in Raghuvamsa

प्रवृत्तावुपलब्धायाम् तस्याः संपातिदर्शनात्।

मारुतिः सागरम् तीर्णः संसारमिव निर्ममः॥ १२-६०

pravṛttāvupalabdhāyām tasyāḥ saṁpātidarśanāt|

mārutiḥ sāgaram tīrṇaḥ saṁsāramiva nirmamaḥ || 12-60

On meeting SampAti, the elder brother of slain jaTAyu, Hanuma gained the news of Seetha’s whereabouts, whereby he crossed the ocean, just as one having no attachment for worldly objects crosses the ocean of this worldly existence. [12-60]

***

Tiru Valluvar says in Tirukkural

The sea of births they alone swim

Who clench His feet and cleave to Him– Kural 10

Another translation

They swim the sea of births, the ‘Monarch’s’ foot who gain;

None others reach the shore of being’s mighty main.

(None can swim the great sea of births but those who are united to the feet of God.)

***

From Arunagirinathar’s Tiruupugaz

……… Meaning ……… by Sri Gopalasundaram from kaumaram.com

nilaiyAdha samudhdhiramAna samusAra thuRaikkaNin mUzhgi: I was drowned in the ocean of family life; an ocean whose vastness and depth can never be measured.

nijamAna dhenap pala pEsi: I used to make a lot of false statements which sounded like truth.

adhanUdE nedu nALum uzhaippuLa dhAgi: In the meantime, I put in long hours of physical labour for many days.

periyOrgaL idaik karavAgi: I used to hide myself from the company of respectable elders.

ninaivAl nin adith thozhil pENi thudhiyAmal: I never used to think of serving You or seeking Your feet.

thalaiyAna udaR piNi URi: Many major diseases attacked my body.

bava nOyin alaip palavEgi: (As I said about the ocean of family life), several waves of illnesses called the disease of birth swayed me!

chalamAna payiththiyam Agi thadumARi: I became an angry mad man and lost my balance.

thaviyAmal: I do not want to suffer like that any more.

piRappaiyu nAdi adhu vErai aRuththu: I want to contemplate on the origin of birth and to destroy its root cause, namely, desire.

unai Odhi thalameedhil pizhaiththidavE nin aruL thArAy: I want to sing Your glory and survive in this world by Your grace.

kaliyANa supuththiran Aga: You are always the great bridegroom

kuRamAdhu thanakku vinOdha: to VaLLi, the damsel of the KuravAs, in whose company You revel!

kavin Aru buyaththil ulAvi viLaiyAdi: You embrace her lovely shoulders and play with her romantically!

kaLi kUrum unaith thuNai thEdum adiyEnai: I seek the Your closeness as You rejoice in the company of VaLLi!

sukappada vEvai kadan Agum idhuk ganamAgu murugOnE: You have to make me experience happiness. It is not only Your duty but would also add to Your dignity, Oh MurugA!

palakAlum unaith thozhuvOrgaL maRavAmal thiruppugazh kURi: Those devotees of Yours, who sing Your glory without fail several times a day,

padimeedhu thudhith thudan vAzha aruLvELE: are blessed by You to live in Your company forever worshipping You!

sivalOkam enappari vERu padhiyAna thiruththaNi mEvu: People love to deem this place, ThiruththaNigai, to be the land of SivA in this world;

bavarOga vayidhdhiya nAtha perumALE.: and You have Your abode here, standing as the Curer of the disease of birth, Oh Great One!

***

Tyagaraja Kriti

raghu nāyaka, nī pāda yuga

rājīvamula nē viḍa-jāla śrī

O best among Raghus! Your pair of

lotus-feet, I cannot let go of.

Anupallavi

agha jālamula pāra tōli nannu

ādarimpa nīvē gati kādā śrī

To drive afar my accumulated sins

And care for me, aren’t you the only refuge?

Charanam

bhavasāgaramu dāṭalēkanē

palu gāsibaḍi nī marugu jēriti

avanijādhipa, śritarakṣaka,

ānandakara, śrī tyāgarājanuta

Unable to cross the worldly ocean,

After much pain, your shelter did I reach,

Husband of Earth’s daughter, Protector of those approaching you!

Maker of joy, Praised by Tyagaraja!

–subham—

Tags- Bhava sagaram, Samsara sagaram, Bhagavad Gita, Tirukkural, Raghuvamsam, Tiruppugaz, Saint Tyagaraja,

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Dance like a Mad Man: Easy Way to reach God says Nammalvar (Post.15,186)

Written by London Swaminathan

Post No. 15,186

Date uploaded in London –  15 November 2025

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

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Nammaalvaar is one of the twelve Tamil Vaishnavite saints known as Aalvaars (Azlvar). He is at the top of the 12 saints because of his contribution to Tamil devotional poetry called Nalayira (naalaayira) Divya Prabandham (4000 poems on Vishnu). His erudition in Tamil language attracted even poets like Bharatiyar, who is the greatest poet in modern Tamil. We can ee Nammalvar’s poems echoing in his songs. Both of them assure us that they will bring Krita Yuga, the Golden Age and drive away the Kali Age, the iron age.

In this article I want to show that Nammalvar is the one who inspired great Chaitanya and others to dance and reach God. Tamil devotees used to sing and dance very soberly. If one goes to Sampradaya Bhajans in Tamil Nadu, one can see men and women dance to the tune of Bhajan singer or the Bhagavata. But they go in round and round and clap rhythmically. If women dance, they hold lamps or sticks in their hands and dance, known as Deepa Pradakshina or Kolaattam. They also do Kummi dance by clapping the hands while moving in a circle

(Kummi- dancing by girls with rhythmic clapping while moving in a circle.

Kolaattam doing the same as above, but with sticks).

But Nammalvar describes a different type of dance which one can see in ISKCON dancers. They jump up and down, and some even fly skyward. I thought Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was the one who inspired such a type of dance. I found myself wrong when I went through the devotional poems of Nammalvar. They are called Paasuram in Tamil .

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu lived just 500 years before our time. But Nammalvar lived about 1200 years before our time.

If one reads the poems given below and note the highlighted words one will understand what he wants us to do.

Nowadays we see great Bhajans done by Chinmaya Mission, Sathya Sai Organisations, Swami Sivananda’s DLS, Ayyappa Bhaktas etc. But Hare Krishna dancers are the only one who come closer to what Nammalvar advised us to do.

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa also told us when one is nearer to God people will think that the person has gone mad. He narrated several anecdotes from Chatanya’s life to illustrate this point. It is true he danced like a mad man and spread the Vishnu worship in Bengal , Bihar and Assam. Abhang singers in Maharashtra walk miles and miles. But Nammalvar says you must jump up and down. Your head should hit the ground. When the people see your antics, people would laugh at you. They will say that you have gone mad. If they act do that, know that you are nearer to God and you are on the right track. Just read the poems below. These are only samples. He elaborates on the same topic further down in his long poem.

3057 மொய்ம் மாம் பூம் பொழில் பொய்கை
       முதலைச் சிறைப்பட்டு நின்ற
கைம்மாவுக்கு அருள் செய்த
       கார் முகில் போல் வண்ணன் கண்ணன்
எம்மானைச் சொல்லிப் பாடி
       எழுந்தும் பறந்தும் துள்ளாதார்
தம்மாம் கருமம் என்? சொல்லீர்
       தண் கடல் வட்டத்து உள்ளீரே (1)

3057. The dark cloud-colored Kaṇṇan
gave his grace to the elephant Gajendra
when it was caught by a crocodile in a pond
by a grove blooming with flowers that swarmed with bees.
What is the use of those who do not get up, dance, jump,
praise and sing the greatness of our lord?
O devotees, who live in the world surrounded by the cool ocean, tell me.

3058 தண் கடல் வட்டத்து உள்ளாரைத்
       தமக்கு இரையாத் தடிந்து உண்ணும்
திண் கழல் கால் அசுரர்க்குத்
       தீங்கு இழைக்கும் திருமாலைப்
பண்கள் தலைக்கொள்ளப் பாடி
       பறந்தும் குனித்தும் உழலாதார்
மண் கொள் உலகில் பிறப்பார்
       வல்வினை மோத மலைந்தே (2)


3058. Thirumaal destroyed the strong Asurans,
ornamented with heroic anklets on their feet
who killed the people of the world
surrounded by oceans and ate them.
If you do not bathe, sing, dance, and praise Thirumaal,
you will be born on the earth again
and suffer because you have collected bad karma.

3059 மலையை எடுத்து கல் மாரி
       காத்து பசுநிரை தன்னைத்
தொலைவு தவிர்த்த பிரானைச்
       சொல்லிச் சொல்லி நின்று எப்போதும்
தலையினோடு ஆதனம் தட்டத்
       தடுகுட்டமாய்ப் பறவாதார்
அலை கொள் நரகத்து அழுந்திக்
       கிடந்து உழைக்கின்ற வம்பரே (3)


3059. He carried Govardhana mountain
and protected the cows from their affliction.
Those who do not jump and dance,
rolling on the ground,
and praise always the dear lord
will go to hell and suffer.

3060 வம்பு அவிழ் கோதைபொருட்டா
       மால் விடை ஏழும் அடர்த்த
செம்பவளத் திரள் வாயன்
       சிரீதரன் தொல் புகழ் பாடி
கும்பிடு நட்டம் இட்டு ஆடி
       கோகு உகட்டுண்டு உழலாதார்
தம் பிறப்பால் பயன் என்னே
       சாது சனங்களிடையே? (4)


3060. The god Sridharan has a beautiful pearl-like mouth.
He killed seven strong bulls to marry Nappinnai
whose hair was adorned with fragrant flowers.
What is the use of those who are born as sages
if they do not sing, dance, kneel, bow their heads
and wander and do not praise the lord?

THEY FALL ON lONDON ROADS TO SALUTE LORD KRISHNA.

3061 சாது சனத்தை நலியும்
       கஞ்சனைச் சாதிப்பதற்கு
ஆதி அம் சோதி உருவை
       அங்கு வைத்து இங்குப் பிறந்த
வேத முதல்வனைப் பாடி
       வீதிகள் தோறும் துள்ளாதார்
ஓதி உணர்ந்தவர் முன்னா
       என் சவிப்பார் மனிசரே? (5)


3061. The ancient beautiful shining god
left his divine form in heaven and was born on the earth
to defeat Kamsan who troubled the sages.
What can those who do not sing, praise, dance and worship him
do before sages who worship him, knowing all the sastras?

3062 மனிசரும் மற்றும் முற்றும் ஆய்
       மாயப் பிறவி பிறந்த
தனியன் பிறப்பிலி தன்னை
       தடங் கடல் சேர்ந்த பிரானை
கனியை கரும்பின் இன் சாற்றை
       கட்டியை தேனை அமுதை
முனிவு இன்றி ஏத்திக் குனிப்பார்
       முழுது உணர் நீர்மையினாரே (6)


3062. People have been born in various forms—
human, animal and others.
The matchless god does not have birth
and he was born on this earth to save his devotees.
He sleeps on the wide ocean.
He is sweet as a fruit, sugarcane juice, jaggery, honey and nectar.
If devotees praise him with songs and dance without ever growing tired
they will receive the wisdom of understanding all things.

3063 நீர்மை இல் நூற்றுவர் வீய
       ஐவர்க்கு அருள்செய்து நின்று
பார் மல்கு சேனை அவித்த
       பரஞ்சுடரை நினைந்து ஆடி
நீர் மல்கு கண்ணினர் ஆகி
       நெஞ்சம் குழைந்து நையாதே
ஊன் மல்கி மோடு பருப்பார்
       உத்தமர்கட்கு என் செய்வாரே? (7)


3063, He gave his grace to the five Pandavas
and destroyed the hundred evil Kauravas.
What is the use of people who merely eat well and get fat
without thinking of the god?
What could they do to the good devotees
who are filled with tears,
melting in their hearts with devotion for the god?

3064 வார் புனல் அம் தண் அருவி
       வட திருவேங்கடத்து எந்தை
பேர் பல சொல்லிப் பிதற்றி
       பித்தர் என்றே பிறர் கூற
ஊர் பல புக்கும் புகாதும்
       உலோகர் சிரிக்க நின்று ஆடி
ஆர்வம் பெருகிக் குனிப்பார்
       அமரர் தொழப்படுவாரே (8)


3064. Our father stays in northern Thiruvenkaṭam hills
where flourishing cool waterfalls descend with abundant water.
Devotees who repeat his many names
and wander everywhere and dance
while the people of the world mock them
and laugh at them saying that they are crazy
will be worshiped by the gods in the sky.

The last stanza here shows that they will laught at you and dub you a crazy fellow.

We have seen such criticism about Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri Seshadri Swamikal of Tiruvannamalai.

Let us all become mad, I mean crazy about God.

Atheists are suffering from God phobia; let us suffer from God mania!

(above translation is by Kausalya Hart. I differ from it  in only in a few places. Nammalvar used the word flying (paranthum) in Tamil.

–subham—

Tags- God mad, Dance, reach god, laugh at , up and down, fly and dance, Nammlavar, Tamil poems, Pasurams, Hare Krishna, ISKCON

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Three books on Plato and the Upanishads! (Post No.15,142)

Written by London Swaminathan

Post No. 15,142

Date uploaded in London –  2 November 2025

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

xxxx  

Scholars are attracted to the topic Plato and the Upanishads and there are three books published with the same topic in the past 50 years.

I read all the three books recently and almost similar topics are discussed by the three authors. Indian authors on Upanishads also compared them.

***

Plato and the Upanishads by Vassilis Vitaxis  was published by Arnold Heinermann Publishers (India) Private Limited New Delhi at the price of Rs 20 in 1977.

The review in The Weekly Mail said,

“It has been established that there was contact between India and Greece even long before Alexander’s campaign. Eusebius (315 CE) speaks of a tradition which he attributes to Aristoxenus, the well known wrier on harmonics and a pupil of Aristotle that certain learned Indians actually visited Athens and conversed with Socrates. The similarities between the Greek philosophy and early Indian thought are very close.

The attempt of the author is to show how the philosophy of Plato has much in common with the philosophy of the Upanishads. The quest of the leaders of the Eleatic school for ONE REALITY underlying material phenomena is very much the same as the metaphysical quest of the Upanishadic seers of that ‘knowing which everything else becomes known.’

The Socratic irony may be matched by a passage in the Kena Upanishad which declares with reference to the TRUTH  “it is not understood by those who understand; it is understood by those who do not understand”.

1

The author finds many parallels between the Upanishads and Plato both in method and substance; the dialogue forms are used by both the Upanishads and Plato. Moreover, this serves as a suitable instrument or vehicle of teaching.

2

Indian philosophy insists that the sphere of logical  thought is far exceeded by that of the mind’s possible experience of reality. Similarly, Plato sees ‘Supreme Truth cannot be orally thought or committed to writing. It can only be an object of some inner experience.

3

In the Phaedrus, the image of the chariots used by Plato is almost the same as in Katha Upanishad. Both the Upanishads and Plato use sleeping state as a metaphor to signify the conditions of life lacking philosophy or enlightenment.

4

The sun is used by the Upanishads and Plato as the cause of light and so of vision and visibility. The light of the sun directed at man that is a beam turned towards the inner self, is platonic. This principle “know thyself“ was the foundation on which Plato erected his theories. It is needless to add that it is Upanishadic method also.

5

There are however several differences between Plato’s object and that of the Upanishads. One of them is that Plato seems to believe in the existence of many souls. His is in consonance with certain schools of India philosophy like Sankhya , but not with Advaita which is the major principle expounded by the Upanishads.

6

Further there are many passages in Plato’s RUPUBLIC wherein he refers to God as if He were a person. Nevertheless, he has also evidence that this is only an image or a way of speaking and His true concept about the Absolute and infinite, that Real Being is  anything but a personal God .

7

Both Plato and the Upanishads regard self -perception as a source of purity in information, and stress the importance of thought and need for reflection and contemplation.

8

Plato also speaks of two kinds of knowledge, the lower leading to opinion and the higher leading to knowledge, which is similarly mentioned in the Mandukya Upanishad and the Katha Upanishad.

9

There is also the touch of the principle of MAYA in Plato who states that the empirical world is thought of as a shadow of reality. “our senses perceive only ghosts and appearances, which are in a state of continuous flux. Only the mind (NOUS) can reach the TRUTH by the communion of the soul through whatever immortal quality it possesses with the unchangeable and the real within the world of form which exist in a super celestial state beyond the substance. Both Plato and the Upanishads  agree about the impossibility of defining the Absolute.

10.

These and many other parallels, quoted by the author, are of great interest to the students of comparative religion and philosophy. The ultimate emphasis of Indian thought has always been liberation or Moksha. The ultimate emphasis of Greek thought has always been to expand the norms and forms of life in whatever manner possible.

–Mail Newspaper Interview by S Y K.

***

Two more books

Plato and Vedic Idealism

Swami Paramananda

Anmol Publications, New Delhi, 1990

***

Hindu Influence on Greek Philosophy

J Lomperis, Department of Political Science, Duke University

All the three books mentioned here are available at University of London Library at SOAS, London.

***

My old articles on the same subject

Plato used Hindu Microcosm and Macrocosm!

Research paper No 1944; Date: 20th June 2015

***

Forty-Six Hindu Discoveries and Indianization of Greek Philosophy (Post No.3837)

Date: 21 APRIL 2017; Post No. 3837

***

Science and Religion in Upanishads

Article No.1925; Date :11th June 2015

***

31 Beautiful Quotations on Upanishads (Post.12,206)

Post No. 12,206; Date  –  30 June , 2023              

***

AUROBINDO’S QUOTATIONS ON THE VEDAS AND THE UPANISHADS (Post No.8000)

Post No.8000; Date– 18 May 2020   

***

List of 121 Upanishads
Post No 1471 ; Dated 9th December 2014

***

यत् पिण्डे तत् ब्रह्माण्डे’ “Your Body is a Miniature Universe” : Upanishad and Charaka Samhita (Post No.14,418)

Post No. 14,418; Date–  21 April 2025

–subham—

Tags- Plato and the Upanishads, three books

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GNANAMAYAM 19th October 2025 BROADCAST PROGRAMME

Gnanamayam Broadcast comes to you EVERY SUNDAY via Zoom, Facebook and You Tube at the same time .

London Time 1 PM (British Summer Time)

Indian Time 5-30 pm (evening)

Sydney, Australia time 11 pm (Night)

*****

PLEASE JOIN US TO LISTEN TO SPECIAL PROGRAMMES via Zoom, Facebook and You Tube at the same time.

****

Prayer -MRS JAYANTHI SUNDAR TEAM

***

NEWS BULLETIN

VAISHNAVI ANAND from London presents World Hindu News in Tamil

****

MRS Brhannayaki Sathyanarayanan  from Bengaluru speaks on

DEVA PRAYAG TEMPLE

****

Talk by Prof S Suryanarayanan

Topic- Some Interesting Facts

***

SPECIAL EVENT-

Talk on Keezadi Excavations

Keezadi and South India

By

N Ganesh Raaja, Amateur Historian and Author

Ganesh Raaja. N hails from Tamil Nadu. He completed his engineering in 2003 and has more than twenty years of experience in the software industry.

He was attracted towards ‘History of India’ after noticing a defaming article in an Indian magazine. He has spent more than eight years researching on this subject. He has read vast number of books related to ancient Sanskrit literature, ancient Tamil literature, scientific evolution etc. written by eminent Indian and foreign scholars.

Each book he referred to catered to a specific aspect of Indian life. After understanding them, a natural interest arose in him to reconcile and chronologically arrange them in a ‘holistic’ and ‘interesting’ way. This is a first attempt at narrating India’s story ‘as-it-happened’.

The result is the book, titled, “The Jambū Island”. This book chronologically organizes the Rishis, kings, literary evolution, people’s lives, and scientific progress based on Sanskrit and Tamil literature. It aims to eliminate myths, interpolations, and exaggerations. It strives to present the story in a logical and captivating narrative, with many pictures.

This book covers the period from roughly 6000 BCE to 3138 BCE, narrating significant events including the rendering of the Vedic mantras by the Rishis, the Aryan clan split towards Iran resulting in the formation of the Zōrōastrians, the atrocities and defeat of the Haihaya clan, fusion of Nāgās and other native tribes into the Vedic religion, Āryan colonization of South India, and the Bharata battle at Kurukshetra.

Post launching his book, Ganesh has started an Youtube channel in Tamil to share his learnings. The goal of this channel to spread awareness about the greatness of our country and Hindu religion, to create a counter-narrative to the popular Dravidian ideology of Tamil Nadu.

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ArivomInaivom    

Amazon book: https://tinyurl.com/rsdsr5y5   

Contact details: 

•      email id: ganesh_n82@yahoo.com                            

•      Location: Bangalore.

•      LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ganesh-raaja-natarajan-90458b5/

 ******

ஞானமயம் ஒலி/ ஒளி பரப்பு நிகழ்ச்சி நிரல் ஞாயிற்றுக்கிழமை 19 October 2025

நேரில் காணலாம்; கேட்கலாம் via Zoom, Facebook and You Tube at the same time .

***

இறைவணக்கம் — திருமதி ஜெயந்தி சுந்தர் குழுவினர்

***

உலக இந்துமத செய்தி மடல்-

லண்டன் மாநகரிலிருந்து வைஷ்ணவி ஆனந்த்

வழங்கும் செய்தி செய்தி மடல்.

***

ஆலயம் அறிவோம் —திருமதி பிரஹந்நாயகி சத்ய நாராயணன்

சொற்பொழிவு– தலைப்பு–  தேவப்பிரயாகை தலம்

****

சொற்பொழிவு:

பேராசிரியர் எஸ் சூர்யநாராயணன்

சுவையான செய்திகள்  

***

இன்றைய சிறப்பு நிகழ்ச்சி:

வரலாற்றுச் சொற்பொழிவு:

கீழடியும் தென் இந்தியாவும்

திரு என். கணேஷ் ராஜா

வரலாற்று ஆராய்ச்சியாளர், நூலாசிரியர்

—subham—

Tags-Gnanamayam Broadcast, 19-10- 2025, programme,

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Ancient Tamil Encyclopaedia- Part 9; One Thousand Interesting Facts! (Post No.15,005)

 Written by London Swaminathan

Post No. 15,005

Date uploaded in London –  20 September 2025

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

xxxx   

Caste ridden Tamil Society

PART NINE

69.

Sangam Age Tamil society was a caste ridden society; there were upper and lower castes. They lived in different ‘cheris’ i.e. different areas of the town. The lower castes were attacked with derisive, degrading, disgraceful and impolite terms.

All these were seen in today’s Tamil society and in hundreds of old proverbs. But we have poets from different castes in Sangam literature. The surprising thing is we don’t see these many castes in 2000 year old Sanskrit literature. We did not see such things either in seven works of Kalidasa or 13 works of Bhasa.

Educated people were always respected through out India at all times. We see butcher Dharmavyadha teaching Rishi Kausika in Mahabharata. We see King Janaka teaching Brahmins in Upanishads. We see Arundhati, the low cate woman and wife of Rishi Vasistha is saluted by everyone until this day. Tamil kings also respected all poets from all castes.

Purananuru, which gives a true picture of a society that lived 2000 years ago has got many interesting things. The same caste followed the same vocation or profession. They included their vocation in their names. But we don’t see any low caste words in the poets’ names such as Pulaiyan or Paraiayan or Kadamban or Thudian.

Now let us look at some verses where caste is predominant:

Izisinan- Puram 287, 289, 82 இழிசினன் Low caste fellow

Izipirappinon – Puram 363 இழிபிறப்பினோன் Man of Low Birth

(Z is used for special L sound in Tamil)

The prefix IZI means low, base, degraded, down

Some scholars argued that we see love marriages more in Sangam Literature that shows that there were no strict caste rules or caste bias. This is a dangerous argument. If we apply the same rule with Paraththai= Para Stri= Prostitute occurring in the poems, then Tamil society will get a very bad name. If we apply the same rule to infighting among the Tamil society, the longest in the History of the World, then Sangam Tamil society will be dubbed as war mongers. We must always differentiate between poetic conventions and actual conditions of the period.

Above all, the true picture is seen in Today’s Tamil community. Except Brahmins, all the castes are begging to the government to include them in the lowest divisions of society. Though the have millions and billions of rupees, they receive all economic benefits like the fraudulent refugee community in the Western Countries.

Following is from Puram verses.

இழிசினன் – 287 -2 ; 82 -3; 289 -10

துடி எறியும் புலைய!

எறிகோல் கொள்ளும் இழிசின!-287-2.

***

சாறுதலைக் கொண்டெனப், பெண்ணீற்று

உற்றெனப் பட்ட மாரி ஞான்ற ஞாயிற்றுக்

கட்டில் நிணக்கும் இழிசினன் கையது-82

இவற்குஈக என்னும் அதுவும்அன் றிசினே;

***

கேட்டியோ வாழி பாண! பாசறைப்

பூக்கோள் இன்றென்று அறையும்

மடிவாய்த் தண்ணுமை இழிசினன் குரலே.-289

Pulaiyan, Pulaiththi புலையன் புலைத்தி They eat dead animals or Dogs. They are used in crematoriums and burial grounds. It is in Bhagavad Gita (5-18) as well

****

Four important low caste sects

Thudiyan, Paraiyan, Paanan, Kadamban in Puram Verse 335

Even Oxford Dictionary has the word Pariah:–

sometimes offensive, an outcast.

“they were treated as social pariahs”

Outcast, persona non grata, leper, reject, untouchable, undesirable, unperson

**

a member of a group of castes concentrated in the Indian states of Kerala and Tamil Nadu and in Sri Lanka, included among the Scheduled Castes or Dalits.

**

Of the four low castes, three are linked with music. But Kadamban is an odd word. No one can give precise meaning; still struggling with the word.

நான்கு முக்கிய ஜாதிகள்

துடியன், பாணன், பறையன், கடம்பன், என்று

இந் நான்கு அல்லது குடியும் இல்லை;– புறம் 335.

***

Pulaiya :

Puram புறம் –259-5; 311-2; 287-1; 360-19;

Kali கலி.72-14;117-7;55-18; 95-10;68-19;85-22

Akam அகம்.34-11;

Narrinai 90-3; 77-1; 347-5;

Kuru.குறு.330-1;

***

Four Main Castes

Like we see the four castes, based on vocation or profession in the latest part of Rig Veda (Purushasuktam in Tenth Mandala), we see same four divisions in Purananuru where Upper and Lower divisions in the society are mentioned.

Puram 183

உற்றுழி உதவியும் உறுபொருள் கொடுத்தும்

பிற்றைநிலை முனியாது கற்றல் நன்றே;

பிறப்போ ரன்ன உடன்வயிற்று உள்ளும்

சிறப்பின் பாலால் தாயும்மனம் திரியும்

ஒருகுடிப் பிறந்த பல்லோ ருள்ளும்

மூத்தோன் வருக என்னாது அவருள்

அறிவுடை யோன்ஆறு அரசும் செல்லும்

வேற்றுமை தெரிந்த நாற்பால் உள்ளும்

கீழ்ப்பால் ஒருவன் கற்பின்

 மேற்பால் ஒருவனும் அவன்கண் படுமே.

This poem gives us three points:

1.Even a mother is more favourable to a learned son.

2.Even a king will favour educated one than an illiterate (in the society or royalty).

3.Even in the society, where there are four fold divisions, a learned person from the lowest community person will be approached by upper caste man (Four Divisions or Sects- Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaisya and Shudra).

Tiru Valluvar confirmed it:

“Though high born, an unlettered man is deemed lower than a learned man of lower birth. “—Tirukkural 409.

மேற்பிறந்தா ராயினும் கல்லாதார் கீழ்ப்பிறந்தும்

கற்றார் அனைத்திலர் பாடு.–409

***

Manu Smriti also emphasizes this point:

“A man who has faith may receive good learning even from a man who is lower, the ultimate law even from a man of the lowest castes, and a jewel of a woman even from a bad family”–2-239

***

“Ambrosia may be extracted even from poison,

And good advice even from a child,

Good behaviour even from enemy

And gold even from something impure “– Manu 2- 240

***

“Women, jewels, learning, law, purification, good advice and various crafts may be acquired from anybody” – Manu 2-241

***

In the last stage of Vedic period we come across four castes. They were based on vocations. Bhagavad Gita verse confirms it.

चातुर्वर्ण्यं मया सृष्टं गुणकर्मविभागश: |

तस्य कर्तारमपि मां विद्ध्यकर्तारमव्ययम् || 4-13||.—Bhagavad Gita

chātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛiṣhṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśhaḥ

tasya kartāram api māṁ viddhyakartāram avyayam.—Bhagavad Gita

The four categories of occupations were created by Me according to people’s qualities and activities. Although I am the Creator of this system, know Me to be the Non-doer and Eternal.—Bhagavad Gita.

Tiru Valluvar of Post Sangam period translated it verbatim:

பிறப்பொக்கும் எல்லா உயிர்க்கும் சிறப்பொவ்வா

செய்தொழில் வேற்றுமை யான்.- திருக்குறள் –972 Tirukkural

Tirukkural English Couplet 972:

All men that live are one in circumstances of birth;
Diversities of works give each his special worth.


Couplet Explanation:

All human beings agree as regards their birth but differ as regards their characteristics, because of the different qualities of their actions.

***

புலையன் ஸ்வபாக undefined பகவத் கீதை 5-18

विद्याविनयसम्पन्ने ब्राह्मणे गवि हस्तिनि |

शुनि चैव श्वपाके च पण्डिता: समदर्शिन: ||5-18||.—Bhagavad Gita

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śhuni chaiva śhva-pāke cha paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśhinaḥ.—Bhagavad Gita

BG 5.18: The truly learned, with the eyes of divine knowledge, see with equal vision a Brahmin, a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a dog-eater (PULAIYAN in Tamil). .—Bhagavad Gita

***

Low caste people worked in Crematoriums

புறம்.363

இருங்கடல் உடுத்தஇப் பெருங்கண் மாநிலம்

உடைஇலை நடுவணது இடைபிறர்க்கு இன்றித்

தாமே ஆண்ட ஏமம் காவலர்

இடுதிரை மணலினும் பலரே; சுடுபிணக்

காடுபதி யாகப் போகித் தத்தம்

நாடு பிறர்கொளச் சென்றுமாய்ந் தனரே;

அதனால் நீயும் கேண்மதி அத்தை; வீயாது

உடம்பொடு நின்ற உயிரும் இல்லை;

மடங்கல் உண்மை மாயமோ அன்றே;

கள்ளி ஏய்ந்த முள்ளியம் புறங்காட்டு 

வெள்ளில் போகிய வியலுள் ஆங்கண்

உப்பிலாஅ அவிப்புழுக்கல்

கைக்கொண்டு பிறக்கு நோக்காது

இழிபிறப்பினோன் ஈயப்பெற்று

நிலங்கல னாக விலங்குபலி மிசையும்

இன்னா வைகல் வாரா முன்னே,

செய்ந்நீ முன்னிய வினையே,

முந்நீர் வரைப்பகம் முழுதுடன் துறந்தே.

Puram–363

***

—subham—

Tags- Castes, Low castes, Pariah, Pulaiyan, Caste ridden, Tamil Society, Ancient Tamil Encyclopaedia- Part 9;  One Thousand Interesting Facts,  Bhagavad Gita, Manu Smriti

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Who is a Good Wife? Mahabharata answers! – Part 2 (Post.14,936)

Written by London Swaminathan

Post No. 14,936

Date uploaded in London –  3 September 2025

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are takn from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

xxxx   

Anamika story in Vana Parva of Mahabharata; Chapters 205 and 206

Anaamikaa= nameless woman i.e. Anonymous

English word Anonymous is derived from Sanskrit word Anamika. (Pronunciation- anaamikaa)

Yudhisthira put a question to sage Markandeya about the place of women in life.

“That a woman carries a child in her womb for ten months, and gives birth at the ripe time, what can be more awesome than that?

Often with danger to her life a woman bears a child gives birth in great pain and brings up her children with tender care- this seems to me to be even more difficult.

Still more difficult, indeed exceedingly difficult, is how woman look after a husband who is uncaring and cruel, from whom they receive only insulting behaviour, and yet, regardless, they live in the truth of their own dharma”.

Markandeya narrated the story of arrogant Brahmin Kaushika.

Kaushika was brahmin who mastered all scriptures and did severe penance. One day, sitting under a tree he was reciting Veda.  A bird sitting on the same tree soiled his clothes. In great anger he looked at the bird and the bird instantly fell dead. Then he set out on his daily round of begging for food, what is called Biksha (Tamil word Pichchai is derived from it.)

He had arrived at a house and gave the customary call. Ane the woman answered from inside the house, ‘Please wait’.

The mistress of the house took some time and Kaushika became very angry. When she came out with food, he reproached her.

She apologised for the delay and told that her husband came just before he cam for food. She had been attending on her husband and hence the delay.

Kaushika raised his voice in ager and said,

“So, for you, your husband is has greater importance than a Brahmana. Even Gods bow their head to Brahmanas, what to say about the mortals. You arrogant woman. Don’t you know the power of Brahmanas? They are like fire. If they wish they can burn the whole earth.

Nameless woman/Anaamikaa, said to him,

“Don’t be angry, Sir! I meant no disrespect to you, but I am not that little bird that you reduced to ashes with your anger. What can your ngr do to me? It cannot touch me even remotely”

“The dharma I obtain from taking care of my husband is what I delight in. I put him in a place higher than even the Gods.

It is the kind of life that I live , ordinary, but in devotion to my husband , that brought me some powers too.

Just see that is how I have the foreknowledge of your burning with your anger that little bird. But, Sir, anger is the enemy that resides in man’s body.

This is in Tamil Veda Tirukkural too,

தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் கொழுநன் தொழுதெழுவாள்

பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை.- குறள் 55

Even rains fall at the command of the wife Who upon rising worships not God, but her husband- Tirukkural 55.

Sanskrit (संस्कृतम्)

पतिमेव हरिं मत्वा प्रातर्या भजते ऽन्वहम् ।

त्वं वर्षेंति तंयाऽऽशप्तो देवोपि किल वर्षति ॥ (५५)

***

Woman said to Kaushika, before leaving,

“Sir if you do not know what Dharma (rightful conduct) is, you should learn it from Dharmavyadha, a meat seller, by going to Mithila. He takes care of his parents. He is truthful and a man of self -control. Should I have said more than I should have, or something offensive, forgive me. Those who live in dharma know also that women are adandaniya, above punishment”

Kaushika said to the woman,

I am very pleased with you. My anger has vanished. Then he went to Mithila and met Dharmavyadha.

To be continued……………….

Similar story is told in Tamil about a Siddha saint called Konkanava. கொக்கென்று நினைத்தாயோ கொங்கணவா?

Hey You Konkanava, Did you think that I am like that bird heron/stork (you burnt a while ago)?

–subham—

Tags- power of woman, arrogant Brahmin, Kaushika, Mahabharata, Vana parva, husband is god, woman is unpunishable. கொக்கென்று நினைத்தாயோ, கொங்கணவா

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KASHMIR SAINT LALLA AGAIN!

SOMETIME AGO I POSTED ONE ARTICLE ABOUT SAIVITE SAINT LALLESWARI OF KASHMIR. HERE IS ANOTHER INFORMATIVE ARTICLE.

 Lal Ded: Her Life and Works

July 21, 2025

Dr Shiben Krishen Raina

FROM THE HINDU POST.

The people of Kashmir revere Lal Ded under various names—Laleshwari, Lalyogeshwari, Lala, Lal, and Lalarifa. Scholars have long debated over the precise period of her birth. On analyzing these various views, the year 1335 AD appears to be the most plausible date for her birth.

It is likely that Lal Ded’s birth name was different. In Kashmiri, Lal means ‘belly,’ and Ded is an honorific term used for revered elderly women. It is said she often roamed half-naked, her large belly covering her private parts. Pt. Gopi Nath Raina, in his book Lal Vakya (1920) and The Word of Lalla Prophetss (1929), suggests her birth name was Padmavati.

It is also believed that during her lifetime, Lal Ded interacted with many prominent figures, such as the then prince Shihabuddin, saints like Syed Jalaluddin Bukhari, Syed Hussain Samanani, and Syed Ali Hamadani. These events are recorded around the Hijri years 748, 773, and 781 respectively, indicating that she was not only born before these years but was mature and enlightened by then.

Like her birth, Lal Ded’s death is also shrouded in uncertainty. It is only said that when she passed away, her body shone like pure gold. This event is believed to have occurred near Bijbehara, close to Anantnag (Islamabad). There is no reliable record regarding the final rites or cremation of her mortal remains. Legend has it that the saint-poet Sheikh Noor-ud-din Wali, born in 1376 CE, once suckled her mother’s breast after being reprimanded by Lal Ded, implying she lived at least till 1376 AD.

Lal Ded was born in Simpura village near Pampore, about nine miles from Srinagar, into a Brahmin farming family. According to the then prevalent customs, she was married in childhood to a reputed Brahmin family in Pampore. Her husband’s name is recorded as Sonpandit. Even from her young age, this proto-poetess harbored a rebellious spirit toward worldly bonds, which ultimately found expression in her deeply emotional and philosophical Vakhs (verses). She received her early education from her family guru, Shri Siddhamol, who introduced her to the secrets of religion, philosophy, knowledge, and yoga, thereby earning the reverential status of a Guru.

When Sonpandit noticed his wife growing increasingly detached, he requested Siddhamol to guide her towards worldly engagement. During a visit to her house, a profound discussion emerged among Sonpandit, Siddhamol, and Lal Ded. The topics were:

1. What is the greatest light?

2. What is the most sacred pilgrimage?

3. Who is the most important relative?

4. What is the most delightful thing in life?

Sonpandit answered: sunlight, the Ganges, a brother, and a wife.

Siddhamol offered: sight, knees (as the body’s journeying tool), pocket (symbolizing wealth), and health.Lal Ded responded: self-realization is the greatest light, curiosity is the holiest pilgrimage, God is the truest relative, and fear of God is the greatest delight.Both  were stunned by the profundity of her response.

Even in childhood, Lal Ded displayed extraordinary traits. She often sat alone in deep thought, never drawn by the attractions of the world—so much so that her peers mocked her for her eccentricity (Kashmiri Zabaan aur Shayari, Vol. 2, p.113).

After marriage, she endured the bitterness and tyranny of her mother-in-law with great patience. Once, she went to fetch water. Her mother-in-law incited her son to spy on her. As Sonpandit approached with a stick, Lal Ded was returning with a water-pitcher on her shoulder. He struck the pitcher, which shattered, but the water remained suspended as if supported by a divine force. She used this water to fill utensils at home, and the leftover water she threw from the window created a pond that still exists, known as Lal Nag.

On another occasion, during a feast at her in-law’s house, her friends teased her that she would enjoy delicious food today. Lal Ded humbly replied, “Whether sweets or savory dishes are cooked, I am fated to eat stones.” Her cruel mother-in-law would place a stone beneath a layer of rice on her plate. This incident led to a local proverb in Kashmir: “Lali neelvath chali na janah”—“ Lal cannot change her fate of stones.”

By now, her spiritual insight had transcended the limitations of the physical world. She began wandering in search of inner truth, even discarding her clothes. She danced, sang, and roamed freely in bliss. She considered only those men to be real who feared God—and such men, she said, were rare. Hence, she felt no shame being naked before others. When she once spotted the great Sufi saint Syed Hamadani approaching, she tried to cover herself. Hamdani asked why she was ashamed now. Lal Ded replied, “O friend of God, until now, only women passed by. You are the first man with divine vision.”

On another occasion, she ran to a shopkeeper requesting clothes to cover herself, saying, “The saint who is coming recognizes me as I recognize him.” As Saint Hamadani arrived, she jumped into a nearby bakery’s tandoor. When the saint called out, “O Lalla, come out and see who is here,” she emerged clad in radiant, divine garments. This incident inspired a Kashmiri saying: “Aayi vaanas te gayi kandaras”—“She came to the grocer but went to the baker.”

Lal Ded had no children, a bond from which nature freed her. She herself said: .“Na pyaayas, na zaayas, na kheayam hend taney shonth”(Neither did I give birth nor partake in maternal food).

The hardships she faced in her household awakened in her a new vision of life. Her spiritual realizations blossomed into poetic expressions known as Vakhs, just like Kabir, who never used pen and paper. These verses were sung orally before being documented. Dr. Grierson, with the help of Pandit Mukund Ram Shastri, compiled 106 Vakhs, published in 1920 in Lalvakyaani by the Royal Asiatic Society, London. R.C. Temple further studied her sayings in The Word of Lalla, published by Cambridge University Press in 1924. Rajanak Bhaskaracharya translated 60 of her Vakhs into Sanskrit.

Many other scholars, such as Sarvanand Charagi, Anand Kaul Bamzai, Ramju Kalla, Jia Lal Kaul Jalali, Gopi Nath Raina, Prof. Jia Lal Kaul, R.K. Wanchoo, and Nand Lal Talib, have contributed significantly to preserving and translating her work. Sarvanand Charagi translated 100 Vakhs into Hindi under Kalam-e-Lalarifa, Anand Kaul Bamzai 75, and Ramju Kalla published 146 Vakhs in Amritvani. Renowned writer/translator Dr.Shiben Krishen Raina collected around 180 Vakhas and published them in a collection printed by Bhuvan Vani Trust Lucknow(1983)

Lal Ded’s  Vakhs are mostly in free verse with rhythmic cadence. Her philosophical insights reflect influences of Shaivism, Vedanta, and Sufism. When she emerged, Islam had already entered Kashmir as a theological system. Amidst religious dogmatism and socio-political unrest, Lal Ded rose above sectarian divisions and voiced the universal truth in the language of the common people. Her mystic vision was deeply personal: “My guru whispered a secret—turn away from the outer and seek within. Since then, my soul has danced naked.”

She had attained a state beyond ego and duality. She saw no difference between self and other, between honor and insult. Her realization of the Self as Shiva was supreme:

“Let people insult or mock me—

I shall never harbor ill in my heart.

When my Shiva has showered grace,

Why should I fear what others think?”

Shaken by social contradictions, her inner being was stirred:

“I saw a wise man dying of hunger,

His body withered like autumn leaves.

I saw a fool beating for stealing food,

And my soul, disturbed, walked away.”

Her understanding of Advaita (non-dualism) matched that of Shankara. She found God not in temples or rituals but within herself:

“I searched for Him in the world—

Day and night, I wandered.

At last, I found Him in my own home—

And from that day, my true path began.”

She opposed religious hypocrisy and criticized both Hindus and Muslims who strayed from true piety. For Lal Ded, religion meant purity of heart.

“Your face is beautiful; your heart is like stone—

Where is the essence in that?

You read and write till your hands are sore—

But you have not removed the darkness within.”

Lal Ded’s poetry is a blend of philosophical depth, poetic beauty, and spiritual universality. Her expressions use metaphor, paradox, suggestion, and symbolic imagery rooted in everyday life. Most of her Vakhs evoke the tranquil Shanta rasa (aesthetic mood of peace).

Lal Ded’s language marks a milestone in Kashmiri literary history. Though some consider Shitikantha’s Mahanaya Prakash the first Kashmiri text, its language is far less Kashmiri than that of Lal Ded’s verses. Her language is Sanskrit-rooted but also contains Persian and Arabic elements. She used Sanskrit words in original or slightly modified forms: prakash, teerth, anugrah, karm, moorkh, manushya, shiv, .updesh., .geeta., .gyaan., etc. Persian-Arabic words include. sahib.,. dil., .jigar., .mushk., .gul., .bagh., .kalma., .shikar., etc.

There is no significant shrine, memorial, or temple dedicated to Lal Ded in Kashmir. Perhaps she transcended such earthly symbols. She came as a divine emissary and merged silently with the Infinite—beyond life and death:

“For me, birth and death are alike.

No one dies for me—

Nor shall I die for anyone.”.

Lal Ded ranks among the greatest spiritual luminaries of the world. She had attained enlightenment during her lifetime and entered the abode of God. For her, life held purpose and death lost its dread. She loved God wholeheartedly and found Him within herself.

Kashmir’s great Sufi saint Sheikh Noor-ud-din Wali, also known as Nund Rishi, offered the most fitting tribute to Lal Ded:

“That Lalla of Padmapore drank the nectar divine—

She was our incarnation.

O Lord! May I be blessed as she was!”

–SUBHAM–

TAGS- Lalleswari, Saint Lalla, Kashmir, Saivite, Hindu Post.

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IS THERE POETRY OR PHILOSOPHY IN THE RIG VEDA? (Post No.4329)

 

 

Written by London Swaminathan

 

Date: 23 October 2017

 

Time uploaded in London- 20–15

 

 

Post No. 4329

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.

We know that the Rig Veda is the oldest religious book in the world; we know that Rig Veda is the first anthology in the world; we know that Rig Veda gives a list of 400 plus poets who were here 6000 years ago. It is amazing to see such a long list of poets several thousand years ago; No language has such a long list of firsts in the modern world.

 

Foreigners, particularly Max Muller and Marxists, dubbed them silly, ‘mostly childish’ with one or two rare gems here and there. They also said you cannot see high philosophy in it. I give below some excerpts of lectures delivered by Dr Ghate in University of Bombay 100 years ago:–

 

“Do you, young readers, come to the Rig Veda (RV) with the hope of finding in it the most sublime poetry? Then I am not surprised at the disappointment which would be in store for you.

You must not expect to find in the RV the smooth and melodious verses of KALIDASA,

nor the deep and heart-rending emotions of BHAVABUTI,

nor the polished and jingling music of DANDIN,

nor the elaborate and highly finished art of MAGHA,

nor the deep significance of BHARAVI,

nor the bewilderingly complex phrases of BANA.

All the same it cannot be denied that the hymns of the RV, at least some of them are such as goddess of poetry would be proud of.

 

The freshness and beautiful imagery which characterize the hymns addressed to Ushas (aurora), the heroic simplicity of some of the hymns addressed to Indra (the Thundering Bull), the homeliness which pervades some of the hymns to Agni, cannot but appeal to a sympathetic and appreciative reader. Though the RV as a book of poetry cannot at all stand comparison with the best specimens of Sanskrit classical poetry, still it has something indescribable in it which cannot be slightly passed over”

MY COMMENTS:-

Rig Veda is not a ‘poetry book’, i.e. nobody praised it as a poetry book. It is valued because it is a book of hymns. Moreover, 5000 or 6000 years ago, the world has no civilisation at all. Egypt, Babylonia, Mayan, Chinese, Greek civilisations came after the RV, if we go by the modern date of RV. Astronomically Tilak and Jacobi placed it in 4500 BCE and latest Saraswati River Research and NASA satellite images place RV before Indus Valley Civilization, i.e. 2500 BCE or before. Hindus believe that Vyasa divided the Vedas into four around 3102 BCE. So when there is no civilization in any part of the world we see 400 plus poets who sang religious songs on the banks of the mighty, ocean like River Sarswati. We even know they did not ‘compose’ but they gave us what they ‘heard’ (Sruti in Sanskrit, Kelvi in Tamil).

 

Is there Philosophy before the Upanishads?

I will give some excerpts from Bombay University lecture by Dr Ghate:

“So far I have spoken about the mythology of the Rig Veda (RV). Before concluding, I should like to make few remarks on the philosophy of the RV:-

“India is often spoken as the cradle of philosophy. Nowhere are made so bold and daring attempts to solve the riddle of the universes as in India, where there lived kings like JANAKA and AJATASATRU, Brahmins like YAAJNAVALKYA and NACHIKETAS, philosophers as SANKARA and KUMARILA. So the student of the RV will naturally be curious to know what philosophy is taught in the RV. He has, however to be warned, that no cut  and dry system is taught here, for which he has to go to SUTRAS. Nor do philosophic speculations form the main burden of the RV as they do in the case of the UPANISHADS.

 

However, the seeds of the Upanishad thought are seen scattered about here and there in the Samhita (Hymns) of the RV. Though the general religion of the RV refers to a plurality of nature gods, still the tendency to monism is distinctly in some of the hymns. Just as the Rishis (seers) thought that the several natural phenomena had some divine forces behind them which were personified into so many gods, in the same way they advanced one step further and came to think that all these were the aspects of one and the same all-pervading divine force which manifested itself in different ways. Thus there was a transition from many gods to one god. Thus in 1-164-46, we have, “They call it Indra, Mitra, Varuna and Agni or the heavenly Garutmath (the sun). The sages call the One Being in many ways; they call it Agni, Yama and Matariswan. Here the several Vedic gods are stated to be one being. This whole hymn (1-164) is nothing but a collection of fifty verses poetry, all of them except one, being riddles whose answers are not given. “The subjects of these riddles are cosmic, that is, pertaining to the nature phenomena of the universe: mythological, that is, referring to the accepted legends about the god; psychological that is, pertaining to the human organs and sensations of finally crude and tentative philosophy or theosophy. Heaven and Earth, Sun and Moon, air, clouds and rain; the course of the sun, the year, the seasons, months days and nights; human voice, self-consciousness of life and death; the origin of the first creature and the originator of the universe – such are the abrupt and bold themes” (from Bloomsfield).

      

The idea that the dead forefathers are dwelling in another world, in the company of gods, where we ourselves to go after death, seem to be expressed or implied in several places.

Thus, we have in 1-91-1, “under your guidance, O Indra, our wise fathers received their share of treasurers among the gods;”

so also 1-125-5. The thirst for life haunts the mind of the Rishis and he leads himself to believe that the life after death in the world of the gods and fathers, is eternal, at least as compared with the life on this earth. Thus in 5-55-4 and 5-63-2 the life is called AMRUTATVA or IMMORTALITY.

 

Questions concerning the beginning and origin of all things were asked and answered by the Vedic Rishis. Thus, in the hymn 10-121 Hiranyagarbha (golden egg) is described as existing in the beginning of the creation, the sole Lord of beings, supporting heaven and earth.

 

In 10-90 hymn popularly known as Purushasukta, the idea that the whole world is one being, the Viratpurusha, who having pervaded the world from all sides, still remained over and above it, is dealt with.

 

In the hymn 10-82, waters are spoken of as being the first substance or prime cause.

 

In hymn 10-125, Vak (speech) is represented as the companion and upholder of the gods and as the foundation of all religious activity and its attendant boons.

 

Hymn 10-129 is a typical hymn in this connection. It is called the Creation hymn. Deussen says of this hymn: “In its noble simplicity, in the loftiness of its philosophic vision, it is possibly the most admirable bit of philosophy of olden times… No translation can ever do justice to the beauty of the original”

The avowed purpose of all philosophy is to account for the presence of the world and its contents as something which is not self-evident, and needs to be explained beyond the point of mere individual experience, or analysis through empirical knowledge. The creation hymn performs this act not without some unsteadiness and with petulance due to scepticism. In putting forth a fundamental principle without personality it does not fall far behind the best thought of later times inside or outside India.”.

One thing, however, must be noted and it is that pessimism and metempsychosis, the two main threads which are oven in everything Indian, and which are he distinguishing traits thereof, are wanting in the early philosophy of the Vedas.”

 

MY COMMENTS:

Modern translations and interpretations give more information on the philosophy of the Vedas. Traditionalists believe that all the philosophical of ancient India existed from the very beginning. They called it the ‘Conclusions of the Vedas’ Vedanta (literally End of Vedas). Dr Ghate’s view was the one held by foregners.

 

Source: Ghate’s Lectures on Rig Veda, Revised and Enlarged by Dr V S Suktankar, Oriental Book Agency, Poona 2, 1966 (First Edition 1915)

 

–Subham–

 

 

 

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by Tamil and Vedas on October 23, 2017  •  Permalink
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Forty-Six Hindu Discoveries and Indianization of Greek Philosophy (Post No.3837)

Compiled by London swaminathan

Date: 21 APRIL 2017

Time uploaded in London:- 10-52 am

Post No. 3837

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Nowadays there are lot of websites and blogs to explain the scientific basis of Hindu rituals and beliefs. I have also written hundreds of articles in this blog. But I was surprised to read an article by Dr Balakrishna M.A., Ph.D. in the Dr Modi Memorial Volume published in 1930.Dr Balakrishna listed at least 46 discoveries of Hindu forefathers. Here is a summary of his nine page article written in 1930 or earlier.

 

1.The Indo- Aryans, whether they constitute the oldest race on this planet or not, surely developed a great civilization at some unknown antiquity. Theirs might be called the earliest civilization in the known annals of mankind.

 

2.Several scholars have shown numerous evidences of the Indian influence on Greek thought, literature, customs and political institutions, but others vigorously reject every idea of the Indianization of the Hellenistic culture

 

3.The speculations of the Vedic and Upanishadic writers are antecedent to all attempts of the Greek mind to dive deep into the mysteries of the world around. The similarity of Zoroastrianism to the Atharvan (Vedic) religion, the worship of the four Vedic Gods such as Agni, Mitra, Indra Asvins in Assyria, and the Greek tradition of the travel of Thales, Pythagoras, Empedocles, Anaxagoras, Democritus and other philosophers into the Oriental countries, and of their acquaintance with Arabs, Chaldeans, Hebrews, Galatians and Indians, in a word, with all the inspired people of the East – all these should lead us to the conclusion that the Greek mind was more or less influenced by Indian Philosophy.

Indian Roots of Pythagoreanism

 

The close similarity of Pythagoreanism with the Hindu philosophy in the worship of god as Tatragmation; the doctrine of five elements, the immortality and transmigration of souls, tripartite soul, the communion with gods, the miraculous powers of the soul, and of the esoteric circle of the initiated; the belief of Pythagoreans in periodic cycle and the kinship of all living creatures, their love of mysticism, asceticism and spiritualism; their pantheistic tendencies; their belief in magic; abstinence from animal diet except when the animals were sacrificed to the gods; the regular performance of Homa; the Pythagorean theorem in particular, and, in general, mathematics, medicine and music, these analogies should lead one to the same conclusion.

 

Hence Dr Grabe positively asserts that there seems to be no doubt abaout the dependence of Pythagoras upon Indian philosophy and science; and all the more so, as the Greeks themselves considered his doctrines as foreign.

 

Indian Origin of Orphicism

 

Again, the cult of Orphicism with its Hindu doctrines of ecstacy, asceticism, soul-culture and abstension from animal food, its systems of purification and sacraments for the redemption of the soul, its belief in a written revelation, its organisation of initiated ‘communities’ or religious fraternities, its faith I the happier lot of the purified and the initiated and, lastly, its creed of the ‘wheel of birth’ of the transmigration of souls or the reincarnation, rather imprisonment, of souls in animal and vegetable forms – these facts show at least some influence of Indian philosophy on the Greek mind.

 

Similar Systems of Indian and Greek Philosophy

 

The Greek theories of pantheism, hedonism and mysticism are profoundly similar to those enunciated in India. The identity of divine pantheons, of religious beliefs and practises, especially of language is no less perplexing. The Indian and Greek systems of philosophy built upon these bases have remarkable resemblance.

 

The teachings of Xenophanes, Parmendies and other Eleatics seem to be parodies of the Upanishadic verses.

The views of Heraclitus, Anaximander, Empedocles, Democritus, Epicurus, Plato and Neo-Platonists, present many striking analogies with the Sankhyan doctrine.

Hindu Discoveries

 

The Hindus were the earliest pre-cursors of the European scientists and philosophers in anticipating and formulating important theories bearing directly or indirectly upon the central doctrine of evolution. The list of such discoveries will show that their scientific contributions were not insignificant.

  1. The Atomic Theory.
  2. Ether as the prima materia.
  3. The Ether Theory of Light.
  4. The Law of Evolution
  5. Spontaneous Evolution of the Cosmos
  6. The Law of Nihil ex nihilo
  7. Nebular Theory.
  8. Emanation Theory.
  9. The Law of the Constancy of Matter,
  10. The Law of the Conservation of Energy.
  11. The Theory of the Dematerialization of Matter.
  12. The Theory of the Unification of Energy.
  13. The doctrine of the unity and Convertibility of human energy and natural forces.
  14. The Procreatrix of the Cosmos is energy and not Matter. 15. Matter is a form of Energy.
  15. The Theory of Abiogenesis.
  16. The Theory of Biogenesis.
  17. Soul-a physiological product,
  18. Mind a -material evolution.
  19. Consciousness–a material evolution.
  20. Sense organs are phenomenal.
  21. Physical origin of life.
  22. The Theory of Epigenesis.
  23. The theory of cosmozoa.
  24. Corpuscular theory.
  25. Life and Consciousness in plants.
  26. Fertilization of plants by insects.

28, Circulation of blood.

  1. circulation of the sap in trees.
  2. Cell Theory,
  3. The theory of the control of sex.
  4. Laws of Eugenics
  5. Laws of Heredity.
  6. Effects of exogamy and endogamy.

35, Physical interpretation of character.

  1. Relation of food and mind.
  2. Theories of the origin of colour.
  3. Factors of the variation of species
  4. Theory of progressive social evolution.
  5. Theory of social retrogression.
  6. The law of the survival of the fittest.
  7. The state as a necessary evil.
  8. The state as a necessary good.
  9. The state, a divine institution
  10. The Hobbesian theory of warfare.
  11. Theory of Social Contract.

Some of these theories can be traced in one form or another in Greek philosophy. Hence there are striking parallelisms in all the important spheres of thought of the Indians and Hellenes. This profound similarity of Greek and Indian speculations on cosmogony and other problems of life, has led many to the conclusion that Greek thought is the inspired child of Indian philosophy.

–Subham–

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by Tamil and Vedas on April 21, 2017  •  Permalink
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Posted by Tamil and Vedas on April 21, 2017

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