Tamil Hindus were ahead of Darwin! (Post No.9464)

WRITTEN BY LONDON SWAMINATHAN

Post No. 9464

Date uploaded in London – –6  APRIL  2021     

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Letters to the Editor published in ‘Indian Express’ on 2-5-1984.

Sir

In the editorial In this day and age of April 21, you have stated that No major religion advocates anything similar to the Darwinian Theory.

Perhaps you are not aware that many centuries before Charles Darwin, the Theory of Evolution was expounded in a more subtler form, by the Tamil saint Manikkavasagar

Hailed as one of the greatest figures in Saiva hagiology, Saint Manikkavasagar is believed to have lived between the fifth and sixth century AD. In his immortal work Tiruvachakam, while singing hymns in praise of Lord Siva ,he says,

Oh Lord! I have undergone all births as a stone,grass,vegetables,worm,tree, animal,bird,reptile,man,ghost,demon,asura,sage,deva and rest of the organic and inorganic forms of life left unsaid (Siva Puranas lines 26-31)

It may be argued that the Saint had not stated the Theory in an orderly manner. The order of the evolution had to be changed because the theory was said in a poetic form.

Rev. G U. Pope, who came to India and learnt Tamil in order to propagate Christianity had to abandon his idea on account of Tiruvachakam s influence over him. Needless to say, that he held the Saint in high esteem.

It is unfortunate that you failed to take cognisance of this native intelligence.

S .Venkatesan

Thendral Street,Solai Nagar

Pondicherry -3

Xxx

My comment

Early writers on the same issue have compared Dasavatara with the Theory of Evolution. It fits more beautifully fits with the Theory of Evolution.

Matsayavavatar- Fish life appeared first in ocean.

Kurma avatara – development of amphibians/ Turtle avatar

Varaha Avatar- boar; land animal

Narasimha avatar – animal – man or man- animal with lion face

Vamana Trivikrama Avatara– Man short and man grown up

Rama/ Parasurama- use of arrows and iron implements

Krishna avatara – highly developed politics, army formation, warfare ; his brother Balarama hated war and went round India spreading agriculture with a plough on his shoulder.

Buddha Avatar- Spreading peace and meditation across globe.

The last Avatar Kalki will happen anytime. He will be carrying ultra modern weapons like missiles.

Xxx

Hindus were Spinoists 2000 years before Spinosa, Darwinians many centuries before Darwin and evolutionists before the doctrine of evolution was accepted by the scientists of our times—Sir Monier Williams

—subham—

Tags- Theory of Evolution, Dasavatar, Tamil Hindus, Manikkavasagar

Are Australian Aborigines Tamil Hindus? (Post No. 2515)

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Research Article Written by london swaminathan

Date: 6 February 2016

 

Post No. 2515

 

Time uploaded in London :– 16-12

 

( Thanks for the Pictures  ) 

 

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Long long ago, 50, 000 years ago, a group of people migrated to Australia via South India and Indonesia. Then there was only one religion that was known as Sanatan Dharma, meaning the Eternal law. Later Greeks and Parsis (Persians) called these people Hindus, because they encountered them first beyond the River Sindhu. ‘S’ became ‘H’ in their languages.

 

I developed some interest in the study of aborigines after reading Kanchi Paramacharya’s (1894-1994) lectures in Chennai. He gave a detailed map of Hindu vestiges around the world. Referring to the Australian aborigines he quoted a book where in the dance of the aborigines was called ‘Shiva dance’ and they wore white paints like the Saivaite Vibhuti/holy ash marks. Later came a report of the dancer Padma Subramaniam in the Tamil dailies that she noted at least 20 Tamil words in the languages of aborigines. She watched their dance especially arranged for her. When I went to Sydney in January 2016 my in laws booked us a ticket for the Cricket match between India and Australia. I told them plainly that I was more interested in the study of aborigines than the cricket match. So my ticket was given to one of their friends and only my wife and sons went to the match with them. I went to the Australia Museum where there was a big section about the aborigines. I was surprised to see lot of similarities with the Hindus.

 

For long I was wondering why the aborigines held the Ayers Rock in esteem like our Mount Kailash. It stands as a solitary rock in the middle of a vast desert. Whether it is the Mt Meru of Kenya or the Fujiyama of Japan, all solitary rocks or volcanoes or hills are worshipped as Divine entities. This is nothing but Hindu in approach. So the Australian aborigines’ worship of Ayer’s rock is similar to the Hindu worship of Mount Kailash.  The original name of the sacred solitary rock is Uluru. It was named after Sir Henry Ayers, an Australian officer. Anyway it is nothing but Mt Kailash of Australia. So Kanchi Shakaracharya’s comparison of Vibhuti and Siva Dance has one more similarity i.e. Ayers rock and Mt Kailash.

 

The similarities don’t stop there. As soon as I entered the Australia Museum in Sydney, I saw a big board about their veneration for their elders. There is only one culture in the whole wide world that respects elders, that is Hindu culture. We can’t see such veneration in Ten Commandments or any other religious book. The first thing taught to the Vedic students was Mata, Pita Guru/ Deivam (Mother, father, teacher and/are God(s). Not only that, one of the daily Pancha Yajnas (five tasks) is the worship of ancestors. The Vedas are the oldest scriptures in the world. Those Vedas praise “their ancestors” (Purvebhayo Rishi:)! That means they are talking about thousands of years before the Rig Vedic times. The Australian aborigines also held Elders in high esteem. All male elders are called uncles and female elders are called aunties by the aorigines. It is practised in Hindu families until today:

 

Look at the board:

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Some of their beliefs about life, death, natural forces like water, fire, wind etc., Gotras(neighbour groups) and the animals are sililar to the Vedic beliefs. When I read them in the museum I was reminded of the Vedic mantras. I will deal with them in the second part of this article. Now I will conclude by giving a Vedic Mantra where elders were praised:

“Gone are the mortals who in former ages

Beheld the flushing of the early morning;

We living men now look upon her shining;

Those will be born who shall hereafter see her” –(R.V.1-113-2 A A Macdonells Translation)

 

Kailash= Uluru= Fujiyama=Mt Meru

Mountain Lord, we speak to thee with blissful words,

“So that all that is moving and living

May, free from disease, have happiness of heart” — (Y.V.Vs 16-4)

Even the Brahmins invoke Gayatri three times every day from the High Mountains. After the prayer she is requested to go back to the top of the hills (Uttame Sikare Devi……)

 

So God in the mountain is part of a Hindu belief. It is no wonder the solitary hill is revered by the aborigines. It is the Mount Kailash of Australia!

One more amazing similarity is that the people who hold this sandstone rock a sacred object are ‘ANANGU’ people. The word Anangu is used in Sangam Tamil literature lot of times to denote divinities, venerable spirits that occupy all natural objects rocks, water sources, hills and holy places! Somehow the old Tamil world has crept into their language.

uluru2

Picture of Uluru (Ayers Rock in Australia)

To be continued………………..

BASIC QUESTIONS ABOUT TAMILS & HINDUISM

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Questions in the letter are answered by London swaminathan

Post No.1173; Dated-15th July 2014.

I received the following message by email:-

Letter from PJ

Hi sir,

I am 17 year old kid from a Tamil family,
I was born in ‘K’near Nagapattinam, I moved to France when I was 13.
I was brought up in a typical Tamil-Hindu family, but I was never taught any religious books.

I love Hinduism so I wanted to learn more about it.

So I did some research in the web and I ended up getting confused.
I came across your blogs and read some of your blogs and biography. I don’t know why, I got a feeling that you would answer all my doubts.

In the web I came across those so called Aryan migration theory and out of India theory and I don’t believe Aryan migration and for me out the India theory make more sense.

My questions are:

book

Q1).Are Tamil people really Hindus ?

My answer: In today’s world 80 to 90 % of Tamils are Hindus. They live traditionally in Tamil Nadu (India), Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore, South Africa, Mauritius, Seychelles, Fiji, Guyana and for the past thirty years in almost all the countries from North Pole (Norway, Sweden) to South Pole (New Zealand and Australia) because of Sri Lankan ethnic conflict. France has a good population of Tamils from the French ruled territories of Tamil Nadu and from Sri Lanka.
Ancient Tamils were Hindus. Sangam Tamil literature has innumerable references to Hindu Gods, Yaga, Yajna (Fire sacrifices), Vedas, Karma theory, Rebirth, Cremation, Beliefs about 40 Samskaras of the Hindus, Yama and Death, Brahmins, Caste System, Wedding ceremonies and Astrology. I have published over 1000 posts in these blogs in Tamil and English quoting references from the Tamil and Sanskrit literature.

If anyone visits Tamil Nadu and see all the 38,000 temples under the HRCE Department OR read the 27,000+ lines of the Sangam Tamil Literature or the 18,000 Saivite Poems of the Nayanmars and 4000 Vaishnavite poems of the Alvars, their doubts will be cleared.

Sage Agastya is associated with Tamil or Tamil country in ancient Tamil literature and Kalidasa’s works.

vivek works

Q2). Why are Vedas and Bhagavad-Gita written in Sanskrit ?

Jesus spoke in Hebrew, Mohammed spoke in Arabic, Krishna spoke in Sanskrit, Sambandar spoke in Tamil and Zoroaster spoke in Persian; but the message they delivered is universal love and faith in God. Tomorrow one more saint may come to spread the same message in Esperanto or a language newly developed. What difference a language can make? Tongues may be different but the hearts are one.

God understands all the languages and even the sign language of the deaf and dumb. Lord Shiva invented a new language called SILENCE. He did preach for the four great saints through silence in his Dakshinamurthy form under the Banyan tree. In our own times Ramana Maharishi did this. If you read “The Search in Secret India” by Paul Brunton, you will understand it.

Aanmiga-Vinaa-Vidai-Vol3-Tamil-S

Q3). What is the link between Tamil and Sanskrit ?

Foreign “Scholars” spread a theory about two different language groups -Dravidian and Aryan- which is not correct. It is true that both the languages are different. But Sanskrit is the closest language to Tamil. No other language in the world can come closer to Tamil than Sanskrit. It is not because of geographical proximity. I mean structurally they are closer than other languages. It is a big topic and only linguists can understand. An old poem of Paranjothy Munivar says that Shiva was the one who taught both the languages. Hindus believe that all the languages in India came from Lord Shiva. Both the Tamil and Sanskrit commentators have written so.

Now and then I read that ‘Tamil is closer to Sumerian’, ‘Tamil is connected to Finnish’, ‘Tamil has link with Japanese’ and I used to laugh at the ignorance of those “scholars”. The latest language theory is that you can find similar words between any two languages in the world. When I was working for the BBC WORLD SERVICE between 1987 and 1992, I interviewed Mr.Sathur Sekaran who wrote 140 books connecting Tamil language with all the languages in the world. When I interviewed him on behalf of the BBC Tamil Service (Tamilosai), I politely pointed out the fallacies in his argument. In short I can show similarities, at least superficial/morphological, between any two languages in the world. This is because we all lived under one roof at one time. The tower of Babel story in the Bible is partly true. We have similar stories in the Hindu scriptures in the Yajur Veda.

With regard to Tamil, no one in the present world can speak pure Tamil without Sanskrit. If you ask the names of one’s father, mother, native place, Deities, everything will be in Sanskrit. Even the people who spearheaded Dravidian movements had only Sanskrit names! I have pointed out Tamils have no words for some common words like ‘heart’ and ‘Face’. I have also pointed out that if anyone dares to remove the poems written by Brahmins or references to Brahmins, and all that is Hindu, there wouldn’t be anything left in Sangam Tamil literature. A lot of Sangam Tamil poets have Sanskrit names such as Kesavan, Damodaran, Valmiki, Brahma, Kapila, Parana,Kamakshi, Vishnu Dasan, Kanna dasan. Please read my article “No Brahmins! No Tamil!!” posted in this blog.

Srimad_Bhagavad__4bfd17abd98d4

Q4). When I was small I thought Tamil was derived from Sanskrit but now they say both are different?

A)I have answered this question already. Please see above.
In an island like New Guiea we have over 750 languages. How and Why? If it can happen in an island, in a vast country like India with different climatic conditions, flora and fauna and 4000 year long history, naturally languages will branch out forming new dialects, leading to newer languages. During Sangam period there was no Malayalam in Kerala. Telugu and Kannada had more Tamilized forms at that time. Now we can’t understand one another; why? The natural law is “Change is inevitable. Everything must change”. Tamil won’t be the same after two hundred years. Tamil that which my great grandfather used is not the language I use today.

Q5). I can understand that India is a land of diversity. I keep wondering why some are really white, we should all be brown due to our climate? ( I am brown and I’m proud to be one)

A)This colour of the skin is the one which foreign scholars used to deceive the native people. People who lived in the north had fairer colours because of the cold climate. I also used to wonder how come we changed to brown colour from the African black and how come the white people became white from the African black. The scientific theory is that we all evolved from the Monkeys/Apes in Africa. Scientists say that Mankind originated in Africa. We were only black at that stage. How come one section became white and another remained black. How long would it take for a black race to become white race? How come there are still black and brown animals and birds even in the cold countries where as the people are all white?

One person told me it was albinos that produced the white race. I expect a better answer from the scientists/biologists.

BRUNTON

Regarding the racist theory:

My theory is that Indians went to different parts of the world taking their culture. Foreign “scholars” arbitrarily fixed the meaning of words (e.g ayas=iron), dates for iron and horse, language groups according to their whims and fancies, interpretations as per their imagination etc. Everything can be changed topsy-turvy (ulta) and can be proved right. The Word ‘Dravidian’ did not exist during Vedic period. The world ‘Aryan’ was used with the meaning of ‘cultured, civilized’ and not with any racial connotation. Foreigners deliberately used it with a racial meaning to confuse the Hindus and destroy their identity.

Q6). I can also understand that Hinduism has more holy books, unlike other religions, but is there any holy book of the Tamil s?

A)Holy Books for the Tamils are Thevaram/Tiruvasagam and Divya Prabandham. Even the authors who composed over 14,000 poems said that they are giving the Vedas in Tamil!!!

Even the atheists accept Tirukkural written by Tiruvalluvar. There can’t be a purer Hindu than Tiruvalluvar. Please read two volumes of English commentary of Tirukkural by Dr S M Diaz, I.P.S.,Ph.D

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7. Why is the Five great epics of Sangam period written by the Jains and Buddhists ?

A)Five Tamil Epics do not belong to Sangam Period; they belong to post Sangam period, may be from 5th century CE to 10th Century CE. We did not get two of the five epics in full. Of the five Tamil epics, Manimegalai is purely Buddhist and Seevaka Chintamani is of the Jains. Silappadikaram, the most popular of the five, is like a Hindu Encyclopaedia. It praised Hindu Gods more than anything else. It is true Jainism is praised by the author. If I have only Tamil books, I will teach Hinduism through this epic than any other book. No rationalist or atheist will touch this book because it is full of “Superstitious Hindu Beliefs”!!!

Q8). Who is Thiruvalluvar ?
I have written under the topic “Who was Tiruvalluvar?” in this blog on24 July 2013. Please read it.

In short, the greatest Tamil Hindu that post Sangam period (fifth century CE) produced was Tiruvalluvar. Even if all the Vedas, Bhagavad Gita, Ramayana and Mahabharata disappear tomorrow, TIRUKKURAL is enough to teach Hinduism. Hindus only can follow the vegetarianism, penance (Tavam=Tapas), Pancha Yajna etc preached in this book. No Muslim, No Christian will be able to follow this. The very structure of the book is Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha (Arathu pal, Porutpal and Inpathu Pal; Moksha is discussed in chapters like Tavam etc.in the Arathu Pal)

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Q9). To make it more confusing THE CASTE SYSTEM: why was that created? I mean “we all are equal”.

A)In ancient India, it started as ‘division of labour’. Slowly it changed into ‘castes by birth’ system. It divided and sub divided in to hundreds and thousands of castes. Who made it? It is not in any Hindu scripture ( I mean the sub sub sub sub castes). Unless every one touches his heart and say that I would not follow it, it won’t go away. There are two movements in India, RSS and Communist party, where it is practised less.

The equality can be brought only by great people who preach religion. When people aim for higher things in life these petty differences will melt away. We saw it happening in big movements like Satya Sai Baba and Sri Ramakrishna missions.

In no part of the world at any one point of time in History, everyone was treated equal. This has been only in letters, not in spirit. People are talking about an idealistic society where they expected no discrimination against anyone. In the United States, different states have different laws!! If it can happen in one country in our own time, imagine what could have happened in Greece and Rome, Egypt and Babylonia two thousand years ago. Being a Gay or a Lesbian was immoral and illegal in all parts of the world. Now a man can marry a man in some parts of the world and can have all family benefits!! MPs and Prime Ministers, Presidents and Queens (like British queen) are not like you and me!! Some are more equal than others!

I have an MA in history. All the ancient societies had big, big discriminations. I am not justifying caste discriminations. But no politician in India will do away with the caste system. No backward caste or scheduled caste will relinquish their status for the next 100 years! They thrive on this. Go to a backward class man or a scheduled caste woman and preach your equality theory. They will look at you as if you have landed from planet Mars!!

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Q10). And finally, is it true that Vedas permit eating meat and it only based on nature.

Yes. It is true. They ate meat on certain occasions. If you believe that part of the Vedas and that part of the Puranas, you must believe in everything that they say. They narrate thousands of miracles and you must believe them. Just because some non Hindus or atheists do some propaganda you don’t need to deny or accept it. Take it (the scriptures) as a whole and weigh it. Read more speeches by Swami Vivekananda or Sayings of Sri Ramakrishna or Bhagavad Gita Tamil commentary or Tiruvasagam commentary by Swami Chidbhavannabda. You would not even have asked these questions.

Poor and ignorant Hindus never read anything that is Hindu, but trained only to ask questions. I don’t blame you. This is the trend with the Hindus. It is true we have hundreds of holy books unlike other religions. But read at least ONE BOOK in full and stick to it. Even if you read only Tirukkural and follow it you will be the greatest Hindu.

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Q). I like Vallalar and Bharathiar a lot and what they say about Hinduism (Santana dharma); why is Murugan and many gods worshiped only by us?

A)If you read Vallalar that is more than enough; He has given the essence of Hinduism. I have already given all the important poems by Vallalar.
If you read Bharatiyar, that is more than enough. He has given the Vedic thoughts in beautiful Tamil poems. Ilango, Vallalar, Valluvar and Bharatiyar are True Tamil Hindus.

Murugan and other Hindu gods are different aspects of ONE GOD. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says, ‘same gold is used to make different ornaments’ (Every time my wife enters a jewellery shop she admires the beauty of each and everything and urges me to buy one for her! Even if I buy the whole shop she wouldn’t be satisfied! In the same way Hindus have found out that they can enjoy more and more by having varieties).

Sri Ramkrishna says that ‘same sugar and flour are used to make different sweets’ ( Every time I go to India, I ask someone to buy halwa from Madurai Nagapattinam Ney Mittay shop or Tirunelveli Lala Halwa shop and I beg someone to buy Panneer Jhangry. Same flour, same sugar! Why do I long for such petty things? It is the sheer variety. Kalisada says ‘variety is the spice of life!’ Hindus have found out that people at different levels of spiritual progress can be slowly elevated to higher and higher state by various forms of deities, various rituals, festivals, foods and dress codes.)

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Q)Sir,I love our religion I just want to know if we and our ancestors are really part of it or we got converted into it.

A)Kanchi Paramacharaya says that Hindusism is the only religion that has no founder, that has no name (word Hinduism is not in our scriptures). He says that it is the eternal religion (Sanatana Dharma). Its vestiges are found in all parts of the world.

Others were converted to newly founded religions such as Islam and Christianity. What happened to the grandfathers of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed? Did they go to hell because the new religions were not there? Those who follow the oldest religion in the world still remain as Hindus. Santana Dharma is the oldest religion according to all the famous encyclopaedias.

I hope you will answer me and I will be grateful to you.

A)I have answered most of your questions.

Q)Pls take a look at my source and tell me if they are true I need you help sir.

A)I had a look at some of the You tube videos. I support ‘out of India theory’. Dr BR Ambedkar, Swami Vivekananda, Mahatma Gandhi, Aurobindo, Kanchi Paramacharya, great Tamil scholars U V Samynatahiyer and Bharathi did NOT support Aryan Migration Theory.

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