MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURAL: Rev GU Pope and Father Beschi compare -1 ( Post No.4459)

MANU IN TAMIL VEDA TIRUKKURAL: Rev GU Pope and Father Beschi compare -1 ( Post No.4459)

Written by London Swaminathan 


Date: 4 DECEMBER 2017 


Time uploaded in London-  21-07



Post No. 4459

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks.


Rev. G U Pope, a Tamil scholar and Christian preacher published The Sacred Kural of Tiruvalluva Nayanar in 1886 with his English translation. Throughout the book he had used his predecessors’ views. He had used Italian Jesuit priest Constantine Joseph Beschi’s Latin translation of Tirukkural, the Tamil Veda and also the translation of Ellis. They have compared some of the Kural couplets with the Manu Smrti, also known as Manava Dharma Shastra.

I will give their list below:



Role of a King

Valluvar says in his Kural Couplets,

The world clings to the feet of the great leader who wields his sceptre with love for his subjects (Kural 544)

The leader saves his subjects from enemies and flawlessly punishes wrong doers (549)

The judge gives capital punishment to wicked killers like removing weeds from a flourishing field (550)



Manu says in the Seventh Chapter,

  1. Let him be ever ready to strike, his prowess constantly displayed, and his secrets constantly concealed, and let him constantly explore the weaknesses of his foe.
  2. Of him who is always ready to strike, the whole world stands in awe; let him therefore make all creatures subject to himself even by the employment of force.
  3. Having fully considered the purpose, (his) power, and the place and the time, he assumes by turns many (different) shapes for the complete attainment of justice.
  4. The (man), who in his exceeding folly hates him, will doubtlessly perish; for the king quickly makes up his mind to destroy such (a man).


Oppression of a Tyrant

Valluvar says in his Kural Couplets,

The leader who does not injure and adopt proper measures each day – his kingdom will perish day by day (Kural 553)


Let them that want their greatness to continue begin with sternness and punish within measure (562).


Manu says in the Seventh Chapter,

  1. Having fully considered the time and the place (of the offence), the strength and the knowledge (of the offender), let him justly inflict that (punishment) on men who act unjustly.


  1. Let the king, having carefully considered (each) affair, be both sharp and gentle; for a king who is both sharp and gentle is highly respected.



Valluvar says,

Kural Couplets 581-590

The reports given by one spy must be tested and verified through another spy (Kural 588)

The spies must be sent one by one, apart; if three spies agree, the information shall be confirmed (589)

Able spies watch keenly the officers, kinsmen and the enemies and all for information (584)


Manu says in the Seventh Chapter

  1. Let that (man) always personally visit by turns all those (other officials); let him properly explore their behaviour in their districts through spies (appointed to) each.
  2. For the servants of the king, who are appointed to protect (the people), generally become knaves who seize the property of others; let him protect his subjects against such (men).
  3. On the whole eightfold business and the five classes (of spies), on the goodwill or enmity and the conduct of the circle (of neighbours he must) carefully (reflect).

xxxxxxxx Subham xxxxxxxxxxxxx





brahmin valluvar

Written by London swaminathan

Date: 17th August 2016

Time uploaded in London: 9-16 AM

Post No.3069

Pictures are taken from various sources; thanks for the pictures.


Tirukkural, the Veda of the Tamils, is a book of great value to the Tamils. Foreign writers who translated it into English and other European languages said it is like the Bible for the Tamils. Though the author TIRU VALLUVAR has written a lot of common things acceptable to all the four oriental religions Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, his 1330 couplets mostly reflect Hindu thoughts.


Some people tried to show him as a Buddhist or a Jain and those theories were exploded because of his reference to GOD and “the god who lives in the heaven”(Kural/Couplet 50)

More over Tiruvalluvar supports death sentence (550) and violence against the misers (1077 and 1078), he was the Chanakya of the Tamil speaking world. So he cannot be a Jain.


For the forty or fifty years I have been quoting his couplets on moral themes in my articles and speeches. I used to wonder whether he was a Vaishnavite or a Saivite. My research shows that he was a Vaishnavite because of his references to Vishnu and his incarnation and Goddess Lakshmi in more couplets. Next comes his references to Vedic Gods Inrda and Yama. Of the Vedic Gods, Yama was his favourite. He gets more references than others. Siva was mentioned only indirectly. But his first ten couplets in praise of God, he makes general references to God in form. He refers to the FEET OF GOD in most of the couplets. So out and out he was a Hindu.


He was a master of Sanskrit as well. He used the Sanskrit words Dhanam and Tavam/Tapas in more than one couplet. Above all, he structured his book on the Hindu values: Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha. Since the Tamils do not write separately on Moksha, he has included it in the Dharma section.


In hundreds of Kurals/couplets, he refers to Vedas and Vedic customs, which I am not using here.

All the books that were published until 75 years ago, described Tiruvalluvar as a poet born to a Brahmin and a low caste woman. Dravidian political parties hid this information in later editions of the book and gave him a new date 31 BCE. Tamil Linguistics show that he lived in 4th or 5th century CE.


Let us look at the references to Hindu Gods in Tirukkural, the Tamil Veda:–


Trivikrama/Vamana Avatar – Kural Couplet 610

Adi Bhagawan – Kural 1

Amrita -64, 82, 720, 1106

Yama – 269, 326, 765, 1083, 1085

Pitrs/departed souls- 43 (who live in southern direction)

Brahma- 1062

Indra – 25

Krishna/Vishnu -1103 (Lotus Eyed)

Lakshmi (lotus seated)- 179, 519, 617, 920

Alakshmi- 617, 936 (Lakshmi’s sister)

Maya/charmer man- 1258 (may be Krishna of Gopis)


Couplet 377 refers to Brahma, as the man who writes fate on every one’s head. But commentators translate the word as GOD.


Couplet 580 refers to Siva drinking poison.

“Men of refined courtesy accept even a cup of poison and look cheerfully calm.”

I quoted this in my research article written in 1997 (in London Tamil Magazine Megam) and commented it may be a reference to Socrates or Siva. But Tamil saint Manikka vasakar used this epithet for Lord Siva. So I conclude that it is an indirect reference to Lord Siva drinking poison when the milky ocean was churned to get the Amrita/ambrosia.

Since more remarks point towards a person who worships Vishnu and Lakshmi, I conclude that Tiruvalluvar was a Vishnu Bhakta.


The Opening Ceremony took place on 13th May 1996. Dr L M Singhvi, High Commissioner of India in grey suit is at left extreme, Dr Stuart Blackburn in grey suit is in the middle and I am (London Swaminathan, author of this article) at the far right in the picture. Location: SOAS, University of London.


Please read my old articles on Tiru Valluvar and Tirukkural:-

Strange Link between Lord Shiva, Socrates and Thiruvalluvar, posted on 18 September 2011


Albert Einstein and Thiruvalluvar, Post No. 749 dated 17th December 2013.

Buddha and Tamil Saint on Good thoughts!, Post No 717 dated 21 November 2013


Who was Tiruvalluvar?, 24-7-2013


Tamil Merchant who dumped Gold into Sea, Post No. 1239; Dated 17th August 2014.


வள்ளுவன் ஒரு சம்ஸ்கிருத அறிஞன், 5 நவம்பர் 2012

திருவள்ளுவர் பற்றிய பழைய புத்தகம் (Post No. 2532) , 12 -2-2016

திருவள்ளுவர் யார்?,  Post No. 748 dated 17th December 2013.


ஏலேல சிங்கன் கதை!, கட்டுரை எண்:– 1238; தேதி 17 ஆகஸ்ட் 2014.

அவ்வையார், வள்ளுவர் பற்றிய அதிசய தகவல்கள்! 14-11-2015