All posts tagged Tamil and Sanskrit

Aryan and Dravidian Languages have a common ancestry (Post.9435)

Compiled BY LONDON SWAMINATHAN

Post No. 9435

Date uploaded in London – –29 MARCH  2021     

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge.

this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

tamilandvedas.com, swamiindology.blogspot.com

if u want the article in word format, please write to us.

R Krishna, Secunderabad

July 2,1978, Organiser Weekly

I read with interest the review of the book

Dravid Maharashtra in the Organiser on June 11.

Having lived all my life in Madras and noted the amazing development there of theories about language and race I should like to draw attention to some interesting things myself! I am not ashamed of referring to mythology since that is what most people do anyway.

1.Dravida was one of Sri Krishna’s sons. Please refer to Monier William’s dictionary. 2.Dramila was the name of a Danava father of Kamsa. Kamsa himself

My comments

I have already written umpteen articles on this issue

1.I have shown 56 countries of Puranic India lists Tamil countries away from Dravida country (See Tamil Encyclopaedia of Singaravelau Mudaliyar , year 1899 (Abhidana Chinatamani)

2.Ihave shown the meaning of Panch Dravida (  5 types of Brahmins).

3.I have also shown Dravid is a suffix for Brahmins such as Cricketeer Dravid; it meant a Brahmin from South India

4. Names like Dravidacharya, Dravida Vedam all belong to Brahmins or devotional literature.

5.There is one Dravida Queen in 1300 BCE. But there the word Dravida is of doubtful origin.

6.But Puranas clearly say that the First Avatara Matya (Fish) is from South India.

tags- common ancestry, Tamil and Sanskrit, Aryan, Dravidian

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by Tamil and Vedas on March 29, 2021  •  Permalink
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Posted by Tamil and Vedas on March 29, 2021

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TAMIL-SANSKRIT RELATIONSHIP – PART 4 BY PSS SASTRI (Post No.8035)

Compiled  BY LONDON SWAMINATHAN

Post No. 8035

Date uploaded in London – 24 May 2020   

Contact – swami_48@yahoo.com

Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

IN THE SECOND PART, PS SUBRAHMANYA SASTRI DEALS WITH TAMIL GRAMMAR 

AND SANSKRIT GRAMMAR QUOTING REFERENCES FROM  TOLKAPPIAM (Oldest Tamil Book)

IN PAGES 33 TO 37,  HE SHOWS  THAT TOLKAPPIAN GIVES THE RULES OF HIS PREDECESSESSORS (not his own)

ON PAGE 38 AND 39, HE SHOWS HOW TOLKAPPIAR USED MATERIALS AVAILABLE IN SANSKRIT SCRIPTURES.

ON PAGE 42, SASTRI SAYS TOLKAPPIAN USED PRATISAKHYA (Vedic literature) MATERIALS




tags – Tamil – Sanskrit Relationship- 4, Sastri

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by Tamil and Vedas on May 24, 2020  •  Permalink
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Dravidian Theories- Tamil and Sanskrit came from same source! (Post No.5284)

 

Compiled by London swaminathan

Date: 3 August 2018

 

Time uploaded in London – 8-16 AM   (British Summer Time)

 

Post No. 5284

 

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Wikipedia, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks. Pictures may be subject to copyright laws.

The present book is a store house of information on everything Dravidian, and bears evidence on every page of it, to the immense learning of the author, his indefatigable research, his genius for analysis, and his familiarity with the grammars of almost all the languages of South India.

It is a pioneering contribution to a field of study in which there have been too few workers. Swaminatha Aiyar, a painstaking scholar, author of the book, has laboured long over it with single minded devotion in the cause of linguistic science. No doubt his labours will help in promoting national integration, by showing how , over two or three millennia ago, people living in different parts of India lived in linguistic amity taking freely from neighbouring languages and there by enriching their own .

Running in twelve chapters of immense importance this pioneering research material suffixed with appendices, bibliography and footnotes, shall be of great help to those who are interested in linguistics in general and Dravidian theories in particular. This is a must for every library and institution.

Author’s Profile

  1. Swaminatha Aiyar was one of the galaxy of brilliant men who are born and bred in Thanjavur district in the nineteenth century. He was a contemporary of P S Sivaswami Aiyar and continued as his close associate and friend, with mutual respect and admiration.

    Like so many great men of those days, R Swaminatha Aiyar also commenced his life as a school teacher in the district, serving as such from 1880 to 1884.

    1885- He was appointed Assistant Professor of Mathematics in Presidency College, Madras
    1889- Head clerk, Revenue Department
    1893- Senior Assistant in Board of Revenue
    1895- Registrar of the Revenue Department
    1896- Professor of Mathematics Presidency College , Madras
    1897- Famine Assistant in Revenue Department , Tamil Translator to Government.

1910- Treasury Deputy Collector, Administrative Deputy Collector

He was a linguist, administrator, mathematician, grammarian, educator, scholar, orientalist, and polymath, a versatile genius. In short, he, by birth, early training and bent of mind, and the opportunities provided by his occupation, became eminently fitted for the work he dedicated himself to later on in life.

 

-TAKEN FROM THE JACKET OF THE BOOK.

Mr P N Appuswami in his foreword to the book said in 1975:
The knowledge he had cultivated of Vedic Sanskrit and of classical Sanskrit, from his boyhood, at a time when such knowledge was more prevalent and valu d , was of great help in preparing his mind for linguistic study . So too his knowledge of the classic Tamil of the Sangam and later periods helped him in his study of the dialects of the Tamil country.

One must be familiar with Vedic and classical Sanskrit and proficient in South Indian languages to understand his theories. But even a cursory reading without deep knowledge in many of these languages, we can understand his line of thinking.

Lot of so called researchers and scholars take one matter from here and one matter from there and try to connect them. They don’t realise that the information belongs to various periods or various levels of development. They connect Vedic Sanskrit and classical Tamil which is widely different in ages. There is at least a 2000 year gap.

Swaminatha Aiyar has beautifully shown the intermediate Prakrit link between Sanskrit and Tamil. He has used the table prepared by Dr Caldwell and showed the possible Prakrit link.

If one followed his line of thinking one could find the common foundation of Tamil and Sanskrit. One can understand why Shiva sent his disciple Agastya from the Northern Himalayas to the Southern Pothiya Hillls to codify a grammar for Tamil. Tradition says that both these languages came from the kettle drum sound of Lord Shiva. Paranjothi Munivar confirms it in his Tiru Vilaiyatal Purana.

Following is the table given by Swaminatha Aiyar to show the link between Tamil and Sanskrit:

 

 

 

 

 

 

My previous articles on the same subject:

  1. Who are Dravidians? | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com/2013/07/17/who-are-dravidians

Who are Dravidians? By London Swaminathan … https://tamilandvedas.com/2013/07/17/who-are-dravidians/ Previous Post திராவிடர்கள் யார்?

.

  1. ‘Dravidians are Invaders’ – Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/…

‘Dravidians are Invaders’ Who are Dravidians ? Part- 2 Post No. 761 dated 26/12/13 ; compiled by London swaminathan Please read part 1 before reading this part …

 

  1. Dravidian | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com/category/dravidian

Foreigners used this “Dravidian” Brahui to show the Dravidians entered India through the north … (for old articles go to tamilandvedas.com OR swamiindology …

  1. Very Important Date – Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/very…

5.Who are Dravidians? (Posted July 17, 2013) and 700 more articles. Contact swami_48@yahoo.com . Title: Microsoft Word – Very Important Date Author: Swaminathan

  1. Munda Tribe follows Brahmin customs! Mystery of Indian Hill …

swamiindology.blogspot.com/2016/06/munda-tribe…

(for old articles go to tamilandvedas.com OR swamiindology.blogspot.com) … Foreigners classified them as Dravidians but there is no Dravidian or Aryan element in them.

  1. Indus Valley Case – Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/indus…

Indus Valley Case: Lord Indra Acquited Post No 764 dated 28th December 2013. … Dravidians and Aryans came to India from outside. But Hindu literature says

 

 

Brahui | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com/tag/brahui

Posted by Tamil and Vedas on September 12, 2017. https://tamilandvedas.com/2017/09/12/brahui-theory-incorrect-post-no-4205/

  1. Tamil and Sanskrit | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com/tag/tamil-and-sanskrit

Tagged Agastya statues, Panini, Tamil and Sanskrit, Tamil Grammar. Posted by Tamil and Vedas on July 26, 2016. … Tamil and Sanskrit came from the same source.

  1. Origin of Tamil and Sanskrit | Swami’s Indology Blog

swamiindology.blogspot.com/2014/11/origin-of…

Tamil and Sanskrit came from the same source. One who knows these two languages can learn any language in the world without much difficulty.

  1. Origin of Tamil and Sanskrit | Tamil and Vedas

tamilandvedas.com/…/origin-of-tamil-and-sanskrit

Origin of Tamil and Sanskrit. Research paper written by London Swaminathan Research article No.1409; … Tamil and Sanskrit came from the same source.

 

–SUBHAM—

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by Tamil and Vedas on August 3, 2018  •  Permalink
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Indian Grammar Wonder! (Post No.3008)

450px-agastyaprambananindonesia

Statues of Agastya in Indonesia

Research Article written by London Swaminathan

Date:26 July 2016

Post No. 3008

Time uploaded in London :–  21-30

( Thanks for the Pictures)

 

DON’T REBLOG IT AT LEAST FOR A WEEK!  DON’T USE THE PICTURES; THEY ARE COPYRIGHTED BY SOMEONE.

 

(for old articles go to tamilandvedas.com OR swamiindology.blogspot.com)

 agastyanepal-carole-r-bolon

Statue of Agastya in Nepal

There is a beautiful verse in Tamil:

 

If there is no literature, no grammar;

If there is no sesame seed, there is no oil;

Like we extract oil from the seeds

We get grammar from literature

–Peragathyam (Big+Agastyam)

 

All of us are familiar with the chicken and egg question which came first? Chicken or Egg?

We are familiar with the question whether man came first or woman came first?

We have an answer at least for this question.

Adam came first and he made Eve out of his left rib. This story was copied from the Hindu scriptures. Atma became Adam and Jiivatmaa became Eve (atma) in the Old Testament (I have already dealt with it in my post “Sanskrit in the Bible”).

 

Hindus say that Parvati was the left side of Shiva and that form is known as Ardha Naareeswar (Half Shiva and Half Parvati/Uma). This is also basis for the ‘left rib’ story of Adam. Left always denotes woman in Hindu literature.

 

There is another story about Brahma falling in love with his own daughter. Stupid foreigners dubbed this as “Incest” without understanding the symbolism. This is again the basis for the Adam and Eve story. Adam fell in love with his own daughter created out of his left rib. This is copied again from the Brahma’s ‘incest’ story.

 

Going back to the original topic, which came first, Grammar or Literature? Tamils are very clear about it: Literature came first and then Grammar was done on the basis of existing literature. Later writers followed that grammar. After 1000 years they dropped some rules and invented new rules as we see in Tamil and Sanskrit.

agastya-in-london

Statue of Agastya in London V and A Museum

Both the languages were created by Lord Shiva from the same root (Sounds from his kettle drum). Foreigners who wanted to divide India invented two families –Aryan family and Dravidian family of languages which is wrong. Both the languages belong to the same family. Thousands of Tamil words are in English which has a known relationship with Sanskrit. This is possible because Tamil and Sanskrit belonged to the same family ( I have dealt with it in my previous research paper)

 

Great Grammar Wonder!

Agastya, a saint who lived in the Himalayas was sent by Lord Shiva to the South to codify a grammar for the Tamil language. We have inscriptional, archaeological and literary proof in Tamil epigraphs, Agastya Statues in South East Asia and literary evidence in Kalidasa and Tamil literature in support of this belief.

 

If we go by the Tamil verse that literature came first, we accept that there was literature in Tamil even before Agastya was sent to the South. The scholars believe that this happened between 700 BCE and 1000 BCE. Unfortunately, Tamils lost their books and their literature and the existing ones start only from first century BCE. One grammarian known as Tolkappiar , believed to be a disciple of Agastya wrote the grammar for Tamil – Tolkappiam which is used until today. But original Agastya couldn’t have been his Guru. Tolkappiam betrays a later age. One thing is certain that Tamils had literature before Agastya came. Tolkappiar had 12 contemporary grammarians including Agastya.

agastya

Sanskrit wonder!

If we apply the Tamil verse that literature came before grammar, we can see a big wonder. Panini was the oddest grammarian in the world. But he himself referred to ten other great grammarians. We did not have those grammars. If we accept the date of Panini as seventh century BCE. We must accept lot of books existed at that time; unfortunately, we did not have any work except the Vedic literature. The oldest book in the world — the Rig Veda– is dated between 1400 BCE and 6000 BCE. Even if we accept 1400 BCE, then another wonder awaits us. There are grammatical terms in Vedic literature which shows that there was a grammar. It was referred to in a religious book! This again means another thing that literature existed even before the Vedas.

 

Remember: Before Grammar was literature!

 

Another coincidence is that some of the names mentioned by Panini are found in the Vedic literature too. But we don’t know whether they are just saints with the same names or saints cum grammarians.

 

Pre- Paninian grammarians include Apisali, Kasyapa, Gargya, Galava, Cakravarmana, Bharadvaja, Sakatayana, Sakalya, Senaka and Sphotayana.

 

Yaska of 8th century BCE refers to the works of Saakataayana, Kraustuki, Gragya and several others.

 

Another wonder is that it shows that Hindus were far more advanced than any other civilization in the world 3500 years ago. Language (Sanskrit), Literature (Vedas), Linguistics (Yaska’s Nirukta) and Grammar (Panini) are the yard sticks of a civilisation. In the above four fields no language of today or ancient days comes closer to Sanskrit. Moreover this is the status after losing hundreds of Shakas (branches ) of the Vedas and thousands of books.

 

Long Live Tamil and Sanskrit.

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by Tamil and Vedas on July 26, 2016  •  Permalink
Posted in Aryan, Dravidian, History, Tamil Literature
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Vowels = Life, Consonants = Body; Hindu concept of Alphabet from Vedic Days!!

sanskrit_alphabet_small_poster

Research paper No 1958

Written by London swaminathan

Date: 27 June 2015

Uploaded in London at 20-15

I have been arguing in my earlier posts that the Western classification of languages is wrong; I have urged to rewrite linguistic rules; Whatever the Western scholars have been saying about the changes that happened in Tamil and Sanskrit because of two different races/meeting is also wrong. The sound changes are in Tamil itself. Sanskrit is the closest language to Tamil and Tamil is the closest language to Sanskrit. I have also shown that both languages have developed from a common source but branched out into two different languages in course of thousands of years. No one is able to show any link to Tamil from any other language till this day. In spite of several articles in World Tamil Conference Souvenirs linking Tamil with every language in the world, they miserably failed to show any deeper connection. All those articles ran to a few pages showing superficial links. All that Bishop Caldwell said about Scythian –Tamil connection is also thrown in to dustbin by all the Tamil scholars. There is no truth in it.

I have also shown that Tamil and Sanskrit have similar alphabetical system and Sandhi system. Basic words of major languages of the world can be traced back to either Tamil or Sanskrit.  I have given examples in my previous posts. The thought process of both the languages are similar. Here is one more proof:–

For long people thought Tamils had developed an ingenious way of explaining the vowels and consonants. This is not correct.  Actually this concept began in the Vedic literature and developed by the Tamils. There is a gap of thousand years between the Vedic Literature (before 1000 BCE) and the Tamil Grammar (First century CE).

The vowels are named ‘Uyir’ (life) and the consonants ‘Mey’(body). The joining of both in one letter is called Uyir Mey  (Vowelconsonant=Life breath in the body). This is a beautiful concept. Later, it was used to explain Saiva Siddhanta principle. The beginning of this lies in the following books:-

letter

The Aitareya Aranyaka compares the vowels to ‘days’ and the consonants to ‘nights’. It compares the vowels to consciousness, the sibilants to the breath, and the consonants to the body (2-3-4-1). In another passage (3-2-5-2), the vowels are compared to the celestial, sibilants to the atmosphere and the consonants to the earth.

Still another passage of the same book (3-2-2) compares the vowels to marrow, consonants to bones, sibilants to breath, and semi-vowels to flesh and blood. It can be summarised as:–

Vowels: Day, Consciousness, Celestial, Marrow

Consonants: Nights, Body, Earth, Bones

Sibilants: Breath, Atmosphere,

Semi – vowels: Flesh and Blood

According to the Chandogya Upanishad (2-22-3), the vowels are the body of Indra, the sibilants are the body of Prajapati, and the consonants are the body of Yama.

It can be summarised as:–

Vowels: Body of Indra

Consonants: Body of Yama

Sibilants: Body of Prajapati

tamil-barakhari

Same Upanishad (2-22-5) says

All the vowels should be pronounced resonant and strong. All the sibilants should be pronounced open, without being slurred or elided. All the consonants should be pronounced slowly, without merging them together

It is amazing to see so much materials regarding languages and linguistics at such an early age; that is before Moses spoke in proto-Hebrew and Homer wrote in Greek!! This shows the amazing development of Hindu civilization. When others were talking about bread and shelter Hindus have advanced to use linguistic similes. This continued even in Kalidasa days. His very first verse in Raghuvamsa is

“Siva and Parvati are always united like sound and sense. As the relation of Sabda and Artha is eternal and interdependent so is the relation of Siva and Parvati, the eternal parents of the world”.

Verbatim Translation

“So that I might attain right knowledge and understanding of words and their meanings, I worship the parents of the universe, Parvati and Paramesvara (Siva), who are perfectly united just like words and their meanings”.

–subham–

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by Tamil and Vedas on June 27, 2015  •  Permalink
Posted in Sanskrit Literature, Tamil Literature
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Posted by Tamil and Vedas on June 27, 2015

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Origin of Tamil and Sanskrit

shiva

Research paper written by London Swaminathan
Research article No.1409; Dated 13th November 2014.

Ancient Tamils believed that Lord Shiva gave two languages to the Hindus: Sanskrit and Tamil. They believed that Siva’s drum Damaruka gave Sanskrit from one side and Tamil from another side. The fourteen Maheswara Sutras (fourteen sounds of letters) came from one side of the drum. And the other side echoed Tamil. Panini, the first grammarian in the world, used the Maheswara sutrani to write Sanskrit grammar.

Where is the proof for such a belief in Tamil?

Tamil poets Kamban, Paranjothy and Bharatiyar openly proclaimed this truth and Kalidasa indirectly referred to it in his Raghuvamsam. Saivite and Vaishnavite saints also praised Sanskrit and Tamil in their hymns from seventh century CE.

Greatest of the modern Tamil poets Subramanya Bharati said in his poem “Mother Tamil”:

1.Siva the supreme was my father
Sage Agastya took delight in me
Grammar, complete and perfect
The Brahmin endowed me with

2.The three royal families
Cherished me with loving care
Among advanced languages I stood
As peer of sublime Sanskrit

Poets erudite, experienced and wise
Combined wine and fire, wind and cosmic space;
Out of that alchemy arose
Sweet poems to enrich me

3.Treatises, scientific and spiritual
Scholars equipped me with;
And glory was mine
That reached the ends of earth. (Translated by Prof. S Ramakrishnan)

trishul-damaru
Dum Dum Dum Dum dum dum Damaruka natha
Bam Bam Bam bam bam bam Bhaje Damaru (Bhajan song)

Bharati did not concoct a new story. This was the age old belief at least from Kamban’s time (Twelfth Century CE). Agastya was sent by Lord Shiva to the south to reduce the imbalance in the population in Northern India (Please see the details in my earlier post on the Population Explosion: Oldest Reference is in Hindu Scriptures posted on 2nd February 2013). “Himalayas was tilting to one side due to heavy concentration of people”. He asked Agastya to lead one group of people to the south. Agastya was not happy to go out of the Himalayas, where Lord Shiva has his permanent abode. But Shiva promised him that he would be on his side in the south. He led 18 tribes from the north which is attested by commentator Nachinarkiniyar (See Tolkaapiam commentary and Puram verse 201).

The earliest reference to Agastya in connection with Tamil land comes from the Raghuvamsam of Kalidasa of first century BCE. Tamils have been living in this land from the days of Ravana. A peace treaty was signed between the Pandyas and Ravana not to attack Tamil Nadu. All these are found in ancient Tamil commentaries from 13th century (please see for details Ravana-Pandya Peace treaty posted on 24th June 2014).

Paranjothy, author of Tiru Vilayadal Purana also says that Lord Siva gave Panini the Sanskrit language and gave Agastya Tamil which is equal to Sanskrit.

Great Tamil poet Kamban also praised Lord Siva as the giver of Tamil language in his Tamil Ramayana and lauded Agastya as the one who gave Tamil which is like boundless ocean. Most of the Vaishnavite and Saivite saints praised Tamil and Sanskrit together in their poems. We may take it as an indirect reference.

Apart from this story, another important thing is Tamil is the closest language to Sanskrit and vice verse. Both have similar case suffixes and alphabetical order. Writers of both the languages follow the same style and beliefs, literary styles (genres) and the values in life.

shiva3

The oldest book in Tamil, Tolkappiyam, speaks of Dharma Artha Kama in the same order. Tiruvalluvar who followed Tolkappiyar also said everything in 1330 couplets under Dharma Artha and Kama (Aram, Porul, Inbam in Tamil) in his Tirukkural.

Hundreds of beliefs and customs were common to both the south and the north from as early as the Sangam period. Key words in Sangam Tamil such as Kamam (sexual desire), Manam(mind), Ulakam (world), Arasan (king), avai(Sabha) etc came from Sanskrit. In fact Tamils did not hesitate to use Sanskrit wherever necessary.
Kamban praised Agastya as the one who gave us the boundless ocean called Tamil. Earliest Tamil poems made an indirect reference to Agastya by comparing Pothiyil Mountains with the Himalayas. Pothyil was the hill where Agastya established his southern most Ashram. It forms part of the 1000 mile long Western Ghats. He shifted his Ashram from the Himalayas, to the Vindhyas and then to Karnataka and then his last resort was at Pothiya Malai near Tirunelveli. We don’t know whether one Agastya did this or his descendants did one after another. We see his statues all over South East Asia.

From Purananuru (Pothyil Hill) to Bharati it covers a historical period of 2000 years. From Agastya/Pandya/Ravana link to modern days, it covers a period of several thousand years. So Agastya’s connection to Tamil is not new. From seventh century onwards we see long Tamil inscriptions which openly speak of Agastya’s contribution to Tamil. Of the three great Tamil kingdoms, Pandyas were the one who patronised Tamil language, Tamil Poets and Three Tamil Academies known as Tamil Sangam.

damaruka

Credits go to Kalidasa of first century BCE for linking Agastya, Pandya and Ravana (Raghuvamsam 6-61, 6-62).
Tamil and Sanskrit came from the same source. One who knows these two languages can learn any language in the world without much difficulty. Anyone who wants to understand Indian culture must study literature in these two languages; otherwise one’s knowledge will be incomplete in this area.

My Earlier posts related to this topic:
Ravana-Pandya Peace Treaty: Kalidasa solves a Tamil Puzzle (24th June 2014)
Population Explosion: Oldest Reference is in Hindu Scriptures (posted on 2nd February 2013).

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by Tamil and Vedas on November 13, 2014  •  Permalink
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Posted by Tamil and Vedas on November 13, 2014

https://tamilandvedas.com/2014/11/13/origin-of-tamil-and-sanskrit/