pictures are from Grand Anaicut in Tamil Nadu; taken by London swaminathan


Post No. 8886

Date uploaded in London – –3 NOVEMBER 2020   

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this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.,

All of us know that a Hindu marriage is legally done , completely done, only when the couple takes Seven Steps together. Please see my links to previous articles on SEVEN STEPS.

 I also wrote about the oldest and the most famous Chola king KARIKALAN (SIMILAR TO KALMASHA PADAN OF HINDU MYTHOLOGY).


Three things show that he was competing with the oldest Pandya king Mudukudumi Peruvazuthi of Purananuru, who established YUPA polls through Pandya kingdom by doing Yagas and Yajnas. Oldest Tamil verse says Pandyan emperor would bow his head  only on  TWO occasions:-

One time to Brahmins

Another time during circumambulation of Siva Temple.

Karikal Choza was similar in many respects.

1.He constructed Yaga Kunda in Eagle shape as prescribed in the Vedas

2.He sent Wind Sailed Ships and controlled the whole of Indian Ocean.

He knew the monsoon and used it fully, says Purananuru. Ships that went with sails are in the oldest book in the Rig Veda as well.


(Please see the references and my 10 year articles about how Ravana easily went to Patna and Himalayas by using monsoon; also Rajatarangini says that Kashmiri kings invaded Sri Lanka using Returning Monsoon)

Karikal Choza (Chola) is dated first century BCE and Panini is dated 8th century BCE.


Now I am reading the Tamil translation of Panini’s Ashtadhyayi for the second time. The Translation was done by Dr K Meenakshi of Pune and published in three parts by World Tamil Research Institute, Chennai-600 113

Panini Sutra 5-2-2

Saapta padheenam sakyam

The commentator says (I think it is from Mahabashya of Patanjali) that walking seven steps together and saying seven words mean firm Friendship. That is the definition of Friendship.

It is also in Rig Veda’s Wedding Mantras. (see my links below)

What Panini said 2700 years ago was followed by Karikal Choza, the gretaest of the Choza Race. Other Vedic rites such as Eagle shaped Yaga  Kunda (Fire Sacrifice Altar) also confirm he was out and out a follower of the Vedas.

Thanks to Panini we come to know the greatness of Number Seven

In Indus-Sarasvati River Bank civilization we see more seals with Number 3 and Number 7 which confirms that it is Hindu Civilization.


Purananuru verse 224 – Eagles Shaped Yaga Kunda

Porunar Atruppadai – lines 165-167 Walking Seven Steps during Farewell Ceremony

Purananuru verse 66 – Using Wind for sailing ; knowledge of Sailors and Monsoon.

Seven Steps | Tamil and Vedas › tag › seven-steps


20 Jul 2016 — Posts about Seven Steps written by Tamil and Vedas. … The seven steps are the seven grades of life. Compare this with the seven ages of life …

walking 7 steps | Tamil and Vedas › tag › walking-7-steps


8 Nov 2016 — Posts about walking 7 steps written by Tamil and Vedas. … The next ceremony is called saptapadi or seven steps. This is the most important …

கரிகால் சோழன் | Tamil and Vedas › tag › கரிக…


18 Jan 2012 — கரிகால் சோழன் வேத நெறி தவறாது ஆண்டவன். 2000 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன் ஆண்ட இவன் சோழ மன்னர்களில் மிகவும் புகழ்பெற்றவன். இவன் …

கரிகாலன் வரலாறு கூறும் … › 2015/01/23


23 Jan 2015 — காண்க: கரிகால் சோழனின் பருந்து வடிவ யாக குண்டம், ஜனவரி 18, 2012. 2.கரிகாலன், ரிக் வேத மந்திரத்தில் சொன்னபடி, ஏழு அடி …

கரிகாலன் | Tamil and Vedas › tag › கரிக…


29 May 2018 — பாடலின் பொருள் : சோழ மண்டலத்தை ஆண்ட மன்னர்களுள் திறமை வாய்ந்த மன்னனான கரிகால் சோழன் தன் உயிர் பிழைத்தல் காரணமாக …

கரிகாலன் மகள் | Tamil and Vedas › tag › கரிக…


8 Mar 2017 — ஆதி மந்தி என்பவள் கரிகால் சோழனின் அருந்தவப் புதல்வி; அவள் ஒரு … சோழன் மகள் ஆதி மந்தியும், சேர நாட்டரசனும், ஆதியின் …

நீண்ட காலம் ஆண்ட மன்னன் … › 2015/01/21


21 Jan 2015 — இவர்களில் யார் காவிரியில் அணை கட்டிய கரிகாலன் என்பது … ஏனெனில் சோழர்களின் தலை நகராக தஞ்சாவூர் உருவாநது மிகவும் …

கரிகாலச் சோழன் | Tamil and Vedas › tag › கரிக…


30 Apr 2018 — கரிகாலன் என்ற சோழனின் மகளுக்கு பெரிய வலிப்பு நோய் வந்தது. எத்தனையோ வைத்தியர்கள் தம்மால் இயன்ற வைத்தியம் செய்து …

சோழர்கள் | Tamil and Vedas › tag › சோழ…

15 Jul 2013 — சேரர்களுக்கு முன்பாக பாண்டியர் பெயரும் சோழர் பெயரும் … கரிகால் சோழன் பருந்து (கழுகு) வடிவ யாக குண்டம் அமைத்து …

தாம்ரலிப்தி | Tamil and Vedas › tag › தாம்…


22 Sep 2014 — இந்தியர்களுக்குப் பருவக் காற்றின் ரகசியம் தெரியும். … உனது முன்னோர்கள் காற்று இயக்கும் திசையை அறிந்தே அதற்கான …

tags — Panini, Karikal Choza, Karikalan, Seven Steps



Post No. 8793

Date uploaded in London – –9 OCTOBER 2020   

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Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.,

Though Panini wrote a grammar book we get amazing information about the rivers, mountains, hills, wells, crops and cities in ancient India from his own work and commentaries and supplementary attached to his book. Greek sources also confirm it. So, we get a clear picture of North India. But we must remember it is only the information about famous and big cities and ports and commercial centres and holy cities. India has over 600,000 towns. Even Kabilar, a Tamil poet who composed highest number poems in 2000 year old Sangam Tamil literature says Pari, a Tamil philanthropist, owned 300 towns in his small Parambu country. It is in Purananuru of Sangam corpus.  If Pari can own 300 towns in a small area of Tamil Nadu there is no wonder that North India had 750 known cities 2700 years ago or even before that.

That ancient  India possessed a large number of cities or towns is also attested to by Greek writers. According to them Punjab was full of towns , centres of industry and economic prosperity. Many of these figured as forts or centres of defence such as the famous town of Massage – Masakaavati- or Aornos – Varanass in the country of the Asvakas. Many towns had a population of 5000 to 10000.

Strabo said that in the territories of the nine nations situated between the Jhelum and Beas, such as the Malloi, Oxydrakai and others , there were 500 cities.

Megasthenes makes the following general statement on the cities of Mauryan India—

“Of their cities it is said that the number is so great that it cannot be said with precision”.

Greeks did not exaggerate and that is known from the lists attached to the two sutras 4-2-75 and 4-2-80 we have about 500 names. If we add the towns from Ghanas we will get the names of 750 towns.

The grammatical literature is now a valuable source of information regarding the old and forgotten cities of India. This literature like Yuan Chwang’s Travels has preserved landmarks .

Famous breed of dogs in Ramayana and Panini

The Ghanapatha gives a list of 500 towns. Of them one is Saubhuta  4-2-75.

It is usually identified with the kingdom of Sophytes mentioned by the Greek writers. The place is especially noted by the Greeks for a ferocious breed of dogs whose fame spread to Greece even before Alexander’s time. Ramayana also refers to similar dogs bred in the Kekaya country  of the Salt Range. It describes them as bred in the royal kennels , strong like tigers, big in size and with big teeth. It was probably the breed of dogs that was referred to by PaninI as Kauleyaka – 4-2-96. Saubhuta was thus a  part of Kekaya in the Salt Range.

tags–750 towns, cities, breed of dogs, Panini




Post No. 8772

Date uploaded in London – –4 OCTOBER 2020   

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Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.,

There are very interesting similarities in Panini’s grammar and Tamil literature. Let us look at some of them today.

(I have already given the Tamil examples in my Tamil article)

Naming women is explained in several sutras of Ashtadhyayi of Panini. It is a common knowledge that feminine names in Sanskrit which are used by all the Hindus from Kanyakumari to Kashmir, end with ‘ee’ or ‘aa’.

Examples :

Savitrii , Gayatrii , Smrtii, Sruthii, Gitaa, Lathaa, Maayaa, Vidhyaa

Numerology and lack of knowledge in Sanskrit changed the spellings in many cases. But the original spellings are intact in our Tamil and Sanskrit literature.

Tamils’ names also ended with ‘e’ or ‘ee’ sounds.

Examples :

Aadhimanthi ,Kannaki ,Madhavi , Punithavathy, Tilkavathy ,Vasuki , Bhagavathy, Angayar kanni( Goddess Minaakshii) , Paandimaadevii (Pandya Queen), Kaamakkannii (Goddess Kamakshii)

Though some of these are Sanskrit names they are attested in the oldest Sangam book Purananuru. Other names were used from second century CE.

Even when Tamils used ‘aa’ ending names, they followed a rule to change them in to ‘ai’ ending names.

Examples :

Giitaa  becomes Gitai; Siataa becomes Siitai,

Even Sangam Tamil literature have Nachellai, Nappasalai, Nappinnai etc.

The ‘E’ ending names do not stop there ; it goes deeper and deeper which shows the deep connection between Tamil and Sanskrit. Here we go with more examples

Panini shows us the way to create feminine names from masculine names; Panini gives us examples:-

Bhava – Bhavaanii

Rudra – Rudraanii

Indra – Indraanii

Shiva – Shivaanii and so on.

Tamils follow the same rule in Sangam Tamil literature which is at least 2000 year old. And Panini is 2700 years old according to Goldstucker.

Kuravan – Kurathi

Kizavan – Kizathi

Maravan – Marachi

Idaiyaan- Idaichi

Aayan – Aaychi

The list goes on and on.

What does it show?

Tamil and Sanskrit came from one source , that is Lord Shiva, and it is attested from 1400 year old Thevaram and the latest  Bharati poems.  It is natural that a language will be influenced by another language spoken in the neighbourhood. But Tamil and Sanskrit do not fall under that category. The connection is deeper. The Sandhi (joining and combining) rules are followed in Tamil and Sanskrit even today. These are the only two ancient languages that follow sandhi rules. More similarities are seen in case suffixes. And I have discovered 30 Tamil words in Pre-Alexander Greek literature. These things torpedo all the theories put forward by our so called linguists.

The very classification of Tamil and its sister languages as Dravidian family is wrong. It is part of Indian languages. If linguistic idiots can argue Brahui and Tamil are related to one another, one can say Tamil and Sanskrit are one and the same.

No scholar can show us more than three Tamil words in Brahui. In all the so called Northern, Middle and Sothern Dravidian languages there are more than 90 percent Sanskrit based words. If there is anything new, that is very minimal. Suppose one decides to remove all Sanskrit based words from these so called Dravidian languages, the languages would disappear. Only Tamil would survive; but like virus affected software or looking  like a severely wounded soldier. No two clocks agree, and similarly no two languages are similar. The differences will always be there. And one can show some similarities between any two languages in the world. That wouldn’t mean that they belong to same group.

I will show more NEW similarities between Tamil and Sanskrit in another article.

-Long Live Tamil–

tags– Panini, naming



Post No.7923

Date uploaded in London – 4 May 2020   

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Great Sanskrit scholars like Bhandrakars and Goldstucker dated Panini around 8th century BCE. His coinage which Arthasastra doesn’t know also place him well before Kautilya of fourth century BCE . So whatever he said becomes very important to decide the chronology of many things. One such thing debated by the scholars is his knowledge about Tamil Nadu. He covered several thousand square miles of north India from Afghanistan to Assam in the north and up to Asmaka country in the South on River Godavari.

But for one who reads deeply it becomes clear that he knew the South of India up to land’s end. In one sutra he mentioned black peppercorns and honey coming through the land route. The long list of articles he mentioned in several sutras shows his vast knowledge in economics, commerce, trade routes and wealth of the community.

And supporting evidence comes from Buddhist Jataka tales. Earlier people like Bodhayana and Yaska also talk about south India. Epics Mahabharata and Ramayana mentioned the customs of Southerners.

We have very clear references to the Tamil kingdoms in the inscriptions of Emperor Asoka and Orissa King Kharavela.

First let us look at the trade routes.

Panini  wrote only a grammar book, but yet his references and the commentaries on his book give us very interesting information.

He mentioned roads leading from one city to another city- sutra 4-3-85

Katyayana in his comments mentioned kantara pathika, that is the forest route. In addition to it, he listed Jangala patha, Vari patha and Sthala patha, and they are routes via jungle thickets, water and land. We also hear about Aja patha- goat track, Sanku patha- narrow mountain paths.

In the Devapathathi Gana 5-3-100 we hear about more interesting routes Hamsa patha and Deva patha which relate to air.

He might have meant air -plane route used by Rama, Ravana and Kubera. Or it may be routes used by the migratory birds. Or it may be the routes used by the Siddhas with supernatural powers. We have literary evidence to support every one of the above.

Kalidasa goes one step ahead and listed three different air routes depending upon the height. While returning to Ayodhya from Sri Lanka by thought powered air -plane the three routes are explained in

Raghuvamsa 13-19. He refers to Sura \ Deva patha, Ghana patha and Kagapatha.

My comments

Even a Tamil book that came about 250 years ago mentioned air routes used by siddhas with super natural powers (Tiru Kutrala Kuravanji by Tri Kuta Rasappa Kavirayar).

Raja patha is still the road name in several Indian cities.

English word path also came from Sanskrit ‘patha’.

Now to this particular sutra regarding the black peppercorns and honey—

Kerala known as Chera Nadu 2000 years was the main exporter of peppers. When Panini mentioned it in sutra 5-1-77,

He must have remembered Kerala.

Black Pepper corns from Tamil speaking Chera nadu (now Malayalm speaking Kerala) went up to Rome and Greece. Till today Kerala exports to other places.



Sutra 4-3-84 is about the gem-stone Vaidurya, known as cats eye.

It said that it was available in Valavaya mountains and polished at Vidura town and so it was called Vaidurya .

We have some references to Vaidurya, Beryls and others  exported from Coimbatore inT amil Nadu. So we may conclude that pepper and gemstones were exported via Coimbatore about 3000 years ago.

V S Agrawala adds more supporting information—

“As pointed out by Keith, Yaska already mentions a southern use of the Vedic word ‘Vijaamatri’ for a son in law who pays to his father in law the price of the bride.

Vijaa maateti sasvad Dakshinaajaahaa kriitapatim aachaksate

—Nirukta 6-9

My comments

Sangam Tamil literature and later Tamil literature confirm this bride price.

“Secondly, the Deccan was the home of Sanskrit as early as Katyayana’ s time whom Patanjali regards as a southerner on account of his partiality for the Tadhita.

Priya taddhitaahaa Daakshinatyaahaa

(Katyayana lived around 4th century BCE.)

“Thirdly, Panini besides referring to the sea and the islands lying near the coast and in mid ocean , actually mentioned that portion of the country which lies between the tropics as

Antarayana desa 8-4-25

It can refer only to Deccan lying south of the Tropic of Cancer, which passes through Kutch and Avanti.”

My comments

Sri Lankaan history book ‘Mahavamsa’ gives more information about the marriages that took place between the royal families of Madurai Pandyas and the first king Vijaya of Sri Lanka. It happened in the sixth century BCE, not far from Panini’s time

So it is very clear that North Indians had a very good knowledge of Southern India and its peoples.

Tags– Panini , Black pepper, Land routes, Yaskar, ,bride price, Katyayana, ,Taddhita




Post No.7798

Date uploaded in London – 8 April 2020   

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Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.

Six years ago. I wrote a research article about Brahmanabad in Pakistan (please see the link below for my old article). Now I have got more information about not only Brahmana country but also Shudra country. It is important that we do more research on it because it is close to Indus-Sarasvati Civilization sites.

Brahmanabad | Tamil and Vedas › tag › brahmanabad


23 Mar 2014 – Posts about Brahmanabad written by Tamil and Vedas. … Brahmanabad, now a ruined city in Pakistan, was once a flourishing city. It was the …

An important geographical term used by Panini is Janapada , which has both a state and cultural unit ,its culture counting more than its geography.,


It is mentioned in Panini’s sutra V-2-71 .

Patanjali definitely calls it a Janapada , ‘brahmanako nama janaadah’, II-298.

The significance of its name is brought out by Kasika , which describes it as the land of Brahmins who were ‘aayudhajiivins’ or followers of military art.


Their military traditions continued up to the time of

Alexander whose invasion they resisted with patriotic heroism (Plutarch , Alex.59).

The Greeks call them ‘Brachmanoi’ and locate them in the middle of Sind, (Arrian.VI.16) of which the capital is still Brahmanabad  (Cunningham, ancient geography, p.310.),

It may be noted that even Rajasekhara, 9th century CE, names ‘Brahmanavaha’ ( abode of Brahmanas) as one of the Janapadas of the west.  Muslim geographers called Brahmanabad as ‘bahmanwaa’ after this old tradition.

It may be noted that Patanjali mentions two formations e-braahmanaka and a-vrishalaka as names of countries ( I-301) corresponding to Saudrayana and Brahmanaka respectively

Saudrayana or the Shudra country is mentioned along with other names in the Gana Aishukaari IV-2-54 which denoted names of countries after their peoples, (vishayo dese)

Like the brahmanas, the sudraayanas ( Greek Sodrae) also are mentioned as having opposed Alexander. Cunningham treats the present Soda Rajputs of south east Sind around Umarkot as their descendants.

Diodorous couples the Sodrae with Massane as occupying the opposite banks of the Indus . Cunningham equates the Massane with the Mausarnaioi of Ptolemy, which name corresponds to the Masuurakarna of the Gana Patha II-4-49, IV-1-112.,

Source book  –

India as known to Panini , V S Agrawala , University of  Lucknow , 1953



“The country that the gods made between the two divine rivers the Sarasvati and the Drsadvati, is what they call the Brahmavarta , the land of Vedas.

Manu 2-17

The conduct of the four classes and intermediary classes in that country, handed down from one person to another person , is conduct of the good people.

Manu 2-18,

According to English tradition the South London pronunciation passed from one person to another is the correct pronunciation known as RP (received pronunciation). Manu also says whether you are a Shudra or Brahmana, as long as you are from Brahmavarta, what you do is right)

The field of the Kurus , the Matsyas , Pancalas and Surasenas constitute the country of Brahma rsi desa , the country of Priestley Sages , right next to the Brahmavarta” .

Manu 2-19


My comments

2700 years after Panini, still the town is called Brahmanabad (brahmnana+ janapada) in Pakistan maps. No one could erase the name of Brahmins!

But one must not jump to any conclusion because it was one among 30 other Janapadas mentioned by Panini. He starts from Kamboja, Gandhara (Kandhar in Afghanistan) and ends with Kalinga (Orissa) in between covering the mighty Magadha, Kosala, Kuru, Salva etc..,

What happened to the Brahmin warriors who opposed Alexander? Are they all converted to Islam or they migrated to India?

Panini lived 2700 years ago. He never mentioned Buddha or Mahavira; but one must remember he wrote only grammatical rules running to just 35 pages, not history book.

Are there anyone now in India claiming that they were the descendants of Brahmanabad?

And why the two communities Brahmanas and Shudras established Janapadas in caste names? Does it mean all the other 28 or so Janapadas are from Kshatryia community?

Since Greeks have written about all these Janapadas and Mahabharata and Ramayana mentioned many Janapadas , we have to do more research.

Janapada mentioned a group of people following certain customs. When they moved to different parts of India or when they expanded their territory, the name covered more areas. So one must not use Puranas, because they were written later.

One source claims Brahmanabad was actually in Indus/Saraswati River basin civilization. Even today we find Saaraswat Brahmins in Western India. They migrated from Sarasvati River basin (Indus Valley Civilization) after a big drought in Sarasvati river basin. Now we know Sarasvati River started drying up before Mahabharata period.,

Panini’s Age:-

Kapisa , which is mentioned as a flourishing town by Panini, was destroyed by Cyrus I in the sixth century BCE, according to Pliny. This indicates that Panini lived before the Persian invasion.

Prakanva is one of the Janapadas mentioned by Panini . Herodotus mentioned it as Parikanoi, part of Darius’ empire. Panini mentioned that it was founded by Rishi Praskanva . it was located north of Kamboja. Panini never mentioned any foreigner like Cyrus or Darius. So he lived closer to Vedic period, may be even eighth century BCE, according to Goldstucker and others.


tags — Brahmin country, Sudra country, Brahmanabad , Panini


Written by London Swaminathan

Post No.7684

Date uploaded in London – 12 March 2020

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Pictures are taken from various sources for spreading knowledge; this is a non- commercial blog. Thanks for your great pictures.


Panini lived 2700 years ago in North West India. Great Sanskrit scholars of India and abroad place him before the Buddha. His grammar is closer to Vedic Sanskrit than the classical Sanskrit. More over Patanjali’s huge Mahabhashya must have been written at least 500 years after Panini. When we look at other ‘sutra’ literature, we see a big gap between the original and the commentary.

“The Sanskrit grammarians were the first to analyse word forms, to recognise the difference between the root and the suffix, to determine the functions of suffixes and on the whole to elaborate a grammatical system to accurate and complete as to be unparalleled in any other country”-Macdonell, India’s Past, p 136

“The celebrated grammar of Panini is the oldest surviving representative of this elaborate grammatical analysis of forms and linguistic investigation.

Panini is the architect of the magnificent edifice known as the Ashtadhyayi, which justly commands the wonder and admiration of the world”—V S Agrawala

Weber regards Panini’s grammar as

“Superior to all similar works of other countries, by the thoroughness with which it investigates the roots the language and the formation of its words”–

History of Indian Literature, p.216

According to Goldstucker

“Panini’s work is indeed a kind of natural history of the Sanskrit language. His grammar is the centre of a vast and important branch of ancient literature. No work has struck deeper roots than his in the soil of the scientific development of India”.

The characteristic feature of Panini’s system is that it derives words from verbal roots. He has given us a comprehensive list of suffixes and roots.

As Colebrook has put it,

“the Ashtadhyayi certainly bears internal evidence of its having accomplished by a single effort.”

According to Burnell,

“Paninis grammar, in all probability, been little tampered with; we have better warrant for its integrity than in the case of any other work”.

On the Aindra School of Sanskrit grammarians

Bhagavan Panini!

Patanjali, the author of Mahabhashya, has applied his master mind to reveal the depth and range of Panini’s scholarship. Like Katyayana, Patanjali applies the term Bhagawan exclusively to Panini in recognition of his supreme position in the field of study he had made his own.

Greatest of the modern Tamil poets Subrahmanya Bharati praised him as the scholar who has produced ‘an incredible work’..

Dr S Radhakrishnan, philosopher and President of India writes,

“Two works on dramaturgy , one by Silali and the other by Krsasva , are referred to by Panini. They show that the dramatic art in India existed long before its rise in Greece.We have lost those works”.

Of Panini’s Sanskrit grammar, which could be printed in about 35 pages of quarto size, the late professor A Macdonnell of Oxford said,

And yet this grammar describes the  entire Sanskrit language  in all the details of its structure with a completeness  which has been never equalled elsewhere.  It is at once the shortest and fullest grammar in the world.”

Kalhana in Rajatarangini

Being to the last degree one, who has achieved his tasks and  helped to augment virtue, what is the difference between  His Majesty J ayapida and  Panini who has fully dealt with the Krthya suffixexs  and made rules for  Guna and  Vrddhi.

During the time of the expounding of Mahabhasya through cleverly camaflouged verses , here is one attack on him which thr scholars circulated as follows,

He who has allwed  himself to be eclipsed  by the brahmins and  who prescribes rules for the stability of society what is the difference    between  His Majesty Jayapida and  Panini who has dealt with the prepositions  Vi and  P ra and laid down rules for the  terminations of the past tense.

— Rajatarangini 4-635 to 637

The comment by R S Pandit on these three verses is

Each of the epithets has a three fold mwaning. One as applied to the grammarian and of the other two , one is in praise of Jayapida and  the other in condemnation of  him. The reference is to  the illustrious grammarian Panini  whose memory is kept ever green in India ,

Yena vyakaranam protam tasmai paninaye namah –

To Panini  by whom  was formulated grammar – a salutation.

tags – Panini, quotes, McDonnell, Burnell,


Age of Panini and his Knowledge about South India (Post No.7222)

Written by London Swaminathan

Date: 16 NOVEMBER 2019

Time  in London – 21-27

Post No. 7222

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The greatest grammarian the world has ever produced is Panini. His master piece Ashtadhyayi (literally Eight Chapters) is the creation of a great genius. Within 4000 sutras (pithy sayings with grammar rules) he has proved that Brevity is the soul of wit. No one else can say such rules in such a short sutras.

Panini’s knowledge about South India is taken as one of the factors to decide his age. Goldstucker and RG Bhandarkar placed him in the seventh century BCE. Others gave him various dates between 4th century BCE and seventh Century BCE. But his silence on Upanishads, Buddha, Mahavira etc place him definitely before Buddha.

Following is the dates given to Panini  by various scholars:-

Goldstucker – seventh century BCE

R G Bhandarkar – seventh century BCE

D R Bandarkar – middle of sixth century BCE

Charpentier – 500  BCE

H C Rayachaudhry –  later half of sixth century BCE.

Grierson – a century elapsed between Panini and Asokan inscriptions

Weber – post Alexander

Each one of them gave his own reasons to place him in the above periods .


Panini did not write about geography of India. But yet he gives the names of rivers, mountains and towns to illustrate some rules.

Panini besides referring to the seas and the islands lying near the coast and mid ocean, actually mentions the portion of country which lies between the  tropics as antar ayana desa. It can refer only to Deccan lying south of the Tropic of Cancer, which passes through Kachcha and Avanti.

Panini also knows of Asmaka on the banks of modern Godavari. He also refers to Kalinga. And people who lived before Panini also mentioned several places in the south. That indirectly proves that south India was known to them.



Ten Greatest Literary Wonders (Post No.4582)

Written by London Swaminathan 


Date: 4 JANUARY 2018


Time uploaded in London- 20-24




Post No. 4582

Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks. Some picturers were used from Brahmi by Ankhita Roy and Malay mandal



Wonder 1

India is a land of wonders. It is a land of literary wonders. Take any subject; It is in the first place; but this article is about the language, literature and linguistics. Nowhere in the world we see 900 plus poets 2000 years ago. We have all the names of the poets and their poems intact. Vedic anukramani gives a list of 435 poets and the Tamil Sangam literature gives a list of approximately 470 poets. We have 1028 hymns containing 10,600 verses or mantras in the Rig Veda alone. It is the oldest book in the world. It is the oldest anthology in the world. Tamil Sangam had 470 poets who had composed 2380 poems. Rig Veda was there at least 4000 years ago when Sarasvati was flowing from the Himalayas to the sea. Tamil Sangam literature came 2000 years after the Vedic poems. Post-Vedic poets prepared the Index- the first in the world.

What does it show? It shows that India, that is Bharat, was the most civilized country and most literate in the ancient world. This also shows that all other civilizations such as Babylonian, Egyptian and Chinese came later. Because literature is the scale with which can measure the wisdom, knowledge and maturity of a society. To reach such a level of intelligence, the community should have lived there several thousand years before that literary production.


Wonder 2


Women wrote Poems!

The literacy and progressive thoughts of the Hindus is highlighted by at least 50 poetesses, which is not seen anyhere in the world. Oldest book Rig Veda has more than 20 poetesses. Sangam literature which came 2000 years after the Vedas has another 25 Tamil poetesses.

This galaxy of intellectuals show that no civilization came nearer to the Hindu civilization.

Women were so educated that they attended the debating societies and (Gargi Vachaknavi) questioned great philosopher such as Yajnavalkya. In Tamil poetess Avvaiyar was fearless in questioning the war mongering Tamil kings.

Wonder 3

The Vedic literature was huge. In every culture, there is a time gap between the poetry and prose. In Sanskrit, four Vedas with 20,000 verses and a huge mass of prose literature ( Brahmanas and Aranyakas) came well before the Greeks started writing. Tamils wrote 2000 years after the Sanskrit poets. The great wonder about this bulky literature is that they passed it by word of mouth until today, at least for 4000 years!


Wonder 4

Another literary wonder is the production of Upanishads – the philosophic treatises- before other philosophers of the world. Moses, Zoroaster, Mahavira, Confucius, Buddha—all came after the Upanishads according to the Hindu dating of the Upanishads.


Wonder 5

In those Upanishads we have a long list of Gurus – over 50 generations of teachers- who passed the wealth of knowledge. That shows how old our teaching is. And in the Puranas (mythologies) we have 140 generations of kings. Longest and continuous list which the world has ever seen. Sumeraian and Egyptian king lists were made up by scholars like Berosus of 2nd century BCE. There are big gaps.. In spite of dry climate helping them to preserve 60,000 clay tablets and Egyptian writings on papyrus the list is incomplete. Together with the Upanishadic list of hereditary teachers and Puranic list of 140 generations before Megasthenes, we stand in the front. These Hindu scriptures are another literary wonder.


Wonder 6

The inscriptions of Emperor Asoka was a great literary wonder. Suddenly we see Brahmi script from Afghanistan to the southernmost part of Sri Lanka—biggest geographical mass—the largest country in the world. This happened 2300 years ago. That means Indians were literate from Kashmir to Kandy in Sri Lanka. Unless they could read Asoka would not have installed so many inscriptions.



Wonder 7


The Brahmi script itself is a great wonder. Though some scholars think that it was derived from Phoenician, the undeniable fact is that it is very different from those Semitic scripts. Brahmi script is alphabetical and scientifically arranged. It followed Paninian phonetics. The greatest wonder abbot the Brahmi script is that it gave the scripts, the glyph to all the languages of South East Asia and South and North India.


Wonder 8

Hindus were first in all the literary ventures whether its wring stories or wring sex manuals. The first grammar book was from Panini of seventh century BCE. The world is wonderstruck with the conciseness of Ashtadyayee of Panini. This grammar book is considered a wonder of human thought


Wonder 9

Language and linguistics are dealt with even in a religious book like Rig Veda. Similes, number symbolism, metaphors using literary subjects show the level of knowledge in the Vedic society. I have already written about the Vedic lingustics and four types of sounds and hymns on Vac—the speech. Higher thoughts and world welfare were dealt n the hymns. The last hymn of the Rig Veda prays for the integration. It can serve as the World National Anthem or the UN national Anthem. The hymns on Earth in the Atharva Veda  can serve as the anthem for all the environmental organisations.

Please see below the relevant hymns:

Language and Linguistics

RV 1-164, 4-58, 8-59, 8-100, 10-71, 10-114, 10-125, 10-177



RV 1-164, 10-71, 4-3, 10-125


World Welfare

10-191, , YV 36, AV 19-60, AV 7-69, AV 3-30,



Wonder 10

Hindus stood first in the production of dictionaries, thesauruses such as 2000 year old Amarakosham. In every field of language they stood first. The Vedic prosody is also highly developed. The syllabus had six different subjects including etymology, grammar and astrology/astronomy. This is also another indication of highly developed culture.


Linguistics | Tamil and Vedas

Vedic Hindus were highly educated. We come across many linguisticobservations in all the four Vedas. Rig Veda, the oldest book, has many hymns dealing with linguistic points. Satyakam Varma has summarised them in his book Vedic Studies. Rig Vedic hymns 1-164, 4-58, 8-59, 8-10, 10-114, 10-125, 10-177 and many …

IS THERE POETRY OR PHILOSOPHY IN THE RIG … – Tamil and Vedas…/is-there-poetry-or-philosophy-in-the-rig-veda-post-no-4…

23 Oct 2017 – Written by London Swaminathan Date: 23 October 2017 Time uploaded in London- 20–15 Post No. 4329 Pictures shown here are taken from various sources such as Facebook friends, Books, Google and newspapers; thanks. We know that the Rig Veda is the oldest religious book in the world; we know…


DIRGATAMAS HYMN- A RIDDLE IN THE RIG VEDA – Tamil and Vedas…/dirgatamas-hymn-a-riddle-in-the-rig-veda-post-no-4453…

2 Dec 2017 – The Rig Vedic hymn 1-164 is a great hymn. Probably that is the longest hymn in the oldest book in the world with 52 mantras. It is like an encyclopaedia touching various subjects. It is a riddle because the poetDirgatamas has used lot of numbers which can be interpreted in many ways. In fact Wilson, Max …

Strange Names for Unknown Poets of Rig Veda … – Tamil and Vedas…/strange-names-for-unknown-poets-of-rig-veda-and-tami…

14 Dec 2014 – Research paper written by London Swaminathan Research article No.1486; Dated 14th December 2014. Some poets have got strange names in the Rig Veda as well as in Sangam Tamil literature. Some of thepoets are named after the epithets they use. There is a reason behind it. Shrikant G.Talageri, in …

You visited this page on 03/01/18.

Poetry in Vedas | Tamil and Vedas

By London Swaminathan. Rig Veda, the oldest religious book in the world, has beautiful poetry in it. The Vedas are records of man’s earliest thoughts on God and philosophical matters. When the Vedic seers wanted to convey their thoughts they used lot of similes as well. Vedas can be interpreted symbolically, …

Big Bang in the Rig Veda! (Post No.4235) | Tamil and Vedas…/big-bang-in-the-rig-veda-post-no-423…

22 Sep 2017 – The Big Bang is described in the Rig Veda 6000 or 7000 years ago. Cosmologists wonder that such a thought occurred to one or two seers on the banks of River Sarasvati in India. Hindus are great cosmologists that the same creation is described in several Brahmanas, Puranas and Manau Smrti as well.




Indian Grammar Wonder! (Post No.3008)


Statues of Agastya in Indonesia

Research Article written by London Swaminathan

Date:26 July 2016

Post No. 3008

Time uploaded in London :–  21-30

( Thanks for the Pictures)




(for old articles go to OR


Statue of Agastya in Nepal

There is a beautiful verse in Tamil:


If there is no literature, no grammar;

If there is no sesame seed, there is no oil;

Like we extract oil from the seeds

We get grammar from literature

–Peragathyam (Big+Agastyam)


All of us are familiar with the chicken and egg question which came first? Chicken or Egg?

We are familiar with the question whether man came first or woman came first?

We have an answer at least for this question.

Adam came first and he made Eve out of his left rib. This story was copied from the Hindu scriptures. Atma became Adam and Jiivatmaa became Eve (atma) in the Old Testament (I have already dealt with it in my post “Sanskrit in the Bible”).


Hindus say that Parvati was the left side of Shiva and that form is known as Ardha Naareeswar (Half Shiva and Half Parvati/Uma). This is also basis for the ‘left rib’ story of Adam. Left always denotes woman in Hindu literature.


There is another story about Brahma falling in love with his own daughter. Stupid foreigners dubbed this as “Incest” without understanding the symbolism. This is again the basis for the Adam and Eve story. Adam fell in love with his own daughter created out of his left rib. This is copied again from the Brahma’s ‘incest’ story.


Going back to the original topic, which came first, Grammar or Literature? Tamils are very clear about it: Literature came first and then Grammar was done on the basis of existing literature. Later writers followed that grammar. After 1000 years they dropped some rules and invented new rules as we see in Tamil and Sanskrit.


Statue of Agastya in London V and A Museum

Both the languages were created by Lord Shiva from the same root (Sounds from his kettle drum). Foreigners who wanted to divide India invented two families –Aryan family and Dravidian family of languages which is wrong. Both the languages belong to the same family. Thousands of Tamil words are in English which has a known relationship with Sanskrit. This is possible because Tamil and Sanskrit belonged to the same family ( I have dealt with it in my previous research paper)


Great Grammar Wonder!

Agastya, a saint who lived in the Himalayas was sent by Lord Shiva to the South to codify a grammar for the Tamil language. We have inscriptional, archaeological and literary proof in Tamil epigraphs, Agastya Statues in South East Asia and literary evidence in Kalidasa and Tamil literature in support of this belief.


If we go by the Tamil verse that literature came first, we accept that there was literature in Tamil even before Agastya was sent to the South. The scholars believe that this happened between 700 BCE and 1000 BCE. Unfortunately, Tamils lost their books and their literature and the existing ones start only from first century BCE. One grammarian known as Tolkappiar , believed to be a disciple of Agastya wrote the grammar for Tamil – Tolkappiam which is used until today. But original Agastya couldn’t have been his Guru. Tolkappiam betrays a later age. One thing is certain that Tamils had literature before Agastya came. Tolkappiar had 12 contemporary grammarians including Agastya.


Sanskrit wonder!

If we apply the Tamil verse that literature came before grammar, we can see a big wonder. Panini was the oddest grammarian in the world. But he himself referred to ten other great grammarians. We did not have those grammars. If we accept the date of Panini as seventh century BCE. We must accept lot of books existed at that time; unfortunately, we did not have any work except the Vedic literature. The oldest book in the world — the Rig Veda– is dated between 1400 BCE and 6000 BCE. Even if we accept 1400 BCE, then another wonder awaits us. There are grammatical terms in Vedic literature which shows that there was a grammar. It was referred to in a religious book! This again means another thing that literature existed even before the Vedas.


Remember: Before Grammar was literature!


Another coincidence is that some of the names mentioned by Panini are found in the Vedic literature too. But we don’t know whether they are just saints with the same names or saints cum grammarians.


Pre- Paninian grammarians include Apisali, Kasyapa, Gargya, Galava, Cakravarmana, Bharadvaja, Sakatayana, Sakalya, Senaka and Sphotayana.


Yaska of 8th century BCE refers to the works of Saakataayana, Kraustuki, Gragya and several others.


Another wonder is that it shows that Hindus were far more advanced than any other civilization in the world 3500 years ago. Language (Sanskrit), Literature (Vedas), Linguistics (Yaska’s Nirukta) and Grammar (Panini) are the yard sticks of a civilisation. In the above four fields no language of today or ancient days comes closer to Sanskrit. Moreover this is the status after losing hundreds of Shakas (branches ) of the Vedas and thousands of books.


Long Live Tamil and Sanskrit.

Advanced Grammar and Linguistics in Vedic India!

Research Article No.1812; Date: 19th April 2015

Written by London swaminathan

Uploaded from London at 21-24

When the sages formed the Speech with their mind

Straining it, as they strain flour with sieve

Therein have friends discovered bonds of friendship

Whose holy beauty lies hidden in that Speech.


With worship they followed the steps of the Speech

And found it installed in the hearts of sages

They acquired it and gave it at many places

And seven singers intone it together.


There is a man who sees but has not seen Vak

There is the man who hears but not has heard her

But to another she reveals her lovely form

Like a loving wife, finely robed, to her husband

—Rig Veda 10-71

One who studies Vedas ‘subject wise’ will be amazed to see the level of knowledge in all the faculties at such an early age. They have reached the highest level in Grammar and Linguistics. Nowhere in the world were grammar and etymology part of regular education in religious institutes. I am talking about a period between 1000 BCE and 1700 BCE. Max Muller said no one can date the Vedas under 1200 BCE. The latest research in Sarasvati River basin and History of Rig Veda show that it can be safely dated to at least 1700 BCE. For Brahmanas (not Brahmin caste, but literature) even if we accept Max Muller’s date it would be 1000 BCE.

Let us look at what  Vedic literature say about grammar, etymology, linguistics in general:-

Hindus were the first to write a grammar book. We have Panini’s Ashtadyayi dated to seventh century BCE by Goldstucker and other great Sanskrit scholars of India.

Hindus were the first in the world to do an Index. They compiled an index for the Vedas: Vedic Anukramani

Hindus were first in installing a chair for the study of words (Nirukta) in all Vedic Educational Institutes in ancient India.

1.The Rig Veda celebrates Vac ( personified speech) as a Goddess (RV 10—125). For the Hindus all that is good is feminine, as affectionate as a mother. So they named all the Vedic metres after women starting from Gayatri metre (24 syllables) and the speech as Vac or Sarasvati or Bharati. Some stanzas of the RV are capable of giving grammatical explanation. Expressions like ‘catvari srnga’ and ‘sapta sindhavah’ have been interpreted by Patanjali in terms of four parts of speech and seven cases.

2.There are speculations on letters, syllables and words in the Brahmanas as also terms like Aksara, Varna and Vibhakti which Panini has used without definition. In the Satapata Brahmana (SB 13-3-1-18) we meet with names for singular ad plural.

3.In the Chandogya Upanishad we find classification of letters and technical terms such as Svara (vowels), sparsa (consonants) and women (sibilants).

4.The next land mark was reached when  the Samhita texts were reduced to pada-patha where in each word is exhibited separately in its individual grammatical form followed by word signs like ‘iti’ and also symbols by avagraha etc. to distinguish case terminations to analyse compounds and to mark out a few special cases of accentuation.

5.Yaska (at least 8th century BCE) distinguishes a Northern and an Eastern school of grammarians and mentions nearly twenty predecessors such as Sakatayana, Pargya, Sakalya. The theory of verbal origin of nouns stressed by Yaska may be said to be the foundation of the whole system of Panini.

6.Yaska states that there are four parts of speech : naman (noun) akhyata (verb), upasarga (preposition) and nipata (particle)  — terms later used by Panini.

64 Grammarians before Panini!

7.Of the sixty four grammarians, referred to as the predecessors of Panini’s ,few must have belonged to the Vedic age (Cultural Heritage of India I (281 -283)

(My comments: Brahmanas themselves belong to 1000 BCE. Yaska mentioned 20 grammarians before 8th century BCE. Panini mentioned 64 grammarians before seventh century BCE. This big number of grammarians show that the civilization  has reached a very high standard during the Vedic times. Only when peace prevails, this is possible.

8.VAC:-Personified speech is celebrated in one hymn of the Rig Veda (10-12-5) in which she describes herself. She accompanies all the gods and supports Mita-Varuna, Indra-Agni and the Asvins. She bends Rudra’s bow against the unbeliever. Her place is in the waters, the sea. She encompasses all beings. In another passage she is called the queen of the gods and divine.

9.A legend of Vac frequently referred to in the Brahmanas is that of Soma being brought back from the Gandharvas at the price of Vac transformed into a woman. (AB 1-27).

My comments: It may be a symbolical story to convey certain thing. We do not know the meaning now.

Riddles in the Vedas

10.Riddle poetry was very popular with the Vedic Hindus. The Rig Veda contains a large number of riddles (RV. 1-114) such as ,seven harness a one wheeled cart; it is drawn by one horse with seven names; three naves have the immortal never-stopping wheel, on which all these beings stand’

11.In content, the Kuntapa hymns (AV20-127-36) are partly riddles and their solutions are partly obscene songs and coarse jokes.

12.The Vajasaneyi Samhita contains a number or riddles with which the priests amused themselves at the horse sacrifice. These riddle games form an equallay imporatant part of the prayers and sacrificial formulae.

13.The Vedic texts frequently assure us that gods wish to be not only fed but entertained as well as they take a particular pleasure in the mysterious and the enigmatic.

Spoken Language

  1. Spoken language was known as ‘Bhasa’. Vedic Sanskrit has grown out of the spoken tongue of the times as its root. The point is discussed by Yaska in the Nirukta (i-16). Those who do not speak a refined language are referred to in the Rig Veda as ‘mrdhravac’ 5-29-10; 5-32-8).

Even in the oldest Tamil book , ‘Kotun thamiz’ (rustic language) is referred to as the language spoken by some people. They were also Tamils living in border areas. When the same was said in the Vedas, they brought in the racist Aryan-Dravidian theory. Even the Greeks called other language speakers as barbarians. Sangam Tamil literature also describe the Yavanas (Greeks/Romans/Arabians) as speakers of a rude language. For any language speaker, another language is a Mrdhra vac. Even Telugus called Tamils Aravas. When such a thing existed in all parts of the world at all times, foreign scholars distorted the image of the Vedic society.

If we make a list of what one community called another community or their language, we will have a long list of insults. There is no race involved. I see lot of phrases about Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh in London.

15.The Satapata Brahmana (SB 3-2-1, 23-24) refers to barbarisms in speech which are to be avoided. Scholars think that it is a reference to Vratyas (please read my article on Vratyas), who are Hindus but did not practice the rituals, leading a nomadic life. We have parallels in Tamil Siddhas, who were high philosophers, but against the rituals.

16.Panchavimsa Brahmana (17-1-9) describes Vratyas as speaking the language of the initiated by the uninitiated people as they felt it difficult to utter.


  1. In the Rig Veda (10-14-16), 10-130-4.5) we meet with several terms which later became well known as technical designations of metres.

Gayatri is said to born of Agni, Usnih of Savitr, Anutubh of Soma, Brahati of Brhaspati, and Virat of Mitra Varuna. Indra, the god praised most often, invented the Tristubh, the metre employed most often. The Visvedevas created Jagati.

A hymn in the eighth Kanda of Atharva Veda gives the number of syllables in these seven chief metres of Vedic poetry by increasing by four successively i.e. from 24 in Gayatri to 48 in Jagati. These seven metres are referred to in several hymns. Fascinated by the charming rhythm of metres, the authors of the Brahmanas ingeniously show that their harmony is, in some mystical and mysterious fashion the fundamental cause of the harmony of the world.

18.Among the five or six extant Indices (anukramanis), the chandonukramani enumerates the metres of the Rig Vedic hymns and states the number of verses in each metre.

These Indices, metres and the care with which they have compiled the statistics show that the civilization was very advanced in literature and mathematics. We don’t see such things in the contemporary Egyptian or Sumerian civilizations.

19.The Satapata Brahmana (8-1-1-2) tells us that metres, like other beings,  were created by Prajapati. In 3-9-4-10. It mentions gayatri as a mystical name of Agni who carries off Soma. Gayatri, in the form of a bird, fetches the Soma from heaven. In the Brahmana and Upanishadic speculations on the mystical significance of metres, numbers play a great part. The Brhadaranyaka Upanishad (5-15) says, “The word Bhumi, Antariksha and Dyu make up eight syllables; a gayatri pada (foot) contains eight syllables, therefore he knows the gayatri gains the three worlds

In other scriptures we have lot of things said about these metres. This shows their obsession with metres, prosody, their number and the mathematics behind it. The Vedic society was very scientific and much more advanced than Sumer and Egypt.

maheswara-sutrani.jpg (300×275)


20.Nirukta of Yaska states, “without this science there can be no understanding of the Vedic mantras (1-15). However it is a commentary on an older list of Vedic words, called the Nighantu or Naighantuka, to each of which one of the more illustrative Vedic passages ought to be understood as attached. Yaska himself mentions earlier Niruktakaras. The Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishads offer as many as 600 etymologised words, through proper etymologies, synonymous expression, explanation of one Vedic word by another and brief annotations of whole verses and hymns.

Yaskas borrowing from earlier works is quite evident though he was the first one to formulate general principles of etymology. When we consider that he lived around 850 BCE and many more etymologists lived before him, the science of etymology must have advanced to a high degree around 1000 BCE. This is a big difference from other civilisations. They did not advance in literature or its allied branches. Only a peaceful and prosperous society could make some progress in this area.

21.The Taiitiriya Samhita and Maitrayani Samhita have got the largest number etymologised  of the Rig Vedic words. Among the Brahmanas, satapata Brahmana and Aitareya Brahmana, and among the Aranyakas, the Aitareya is notable in this respect. Among the Upanishads Brhadaranyaka and Chandogya Upanishads occasionally take to etymologising on the basis of etymologising principles formulated by Yaska.

  1. Anecdotal etymologies are copious in Brahmana literature. Thus the etymologies of Agni, Asva, Udumbara, Vidyut, Prithivi etc., are connected with the legend of Prajapati; those of Ashada, Aparajita etc., with the legend of Devasura contest; and that of Puskara and Sakvari with the legend of Indra- Vritra fight in the Brahmanas.

23.Vedic language had become antique with obsolete words by the time of Yaska. He counts more than 400 words of which he did not know the meaning.  This shows the big gap between the time of Yaska and the Samhitas.

24.In the Atharva Veda (8-10-5), there is a reference to Vak on incantation for acquiring extraordinary charm of speech and manner. Social prestige through intelligent speech is vouchsafed in the Rig Veda (10-71-10). Success in assembly and triumph in debate, were greeted with joy by the friends of equal mind. At the later Vedic ae Hindus had even invented a prescription for procuring a son not only attending the assembly or conference, but also having naturally cultured speech as ‘susruta vak’ by learning in the lore’s, clearly noted in Brahadaranyaka Upanishad (6-4-17)

All the above quotes point out that the Vedic Hindus cared so much about their speech and such a thing is possible only in a civilized society.

Souce: Cultural History of India; A Cultural Index to Vedic Literature by N N Bhattacharya and Sri Aurobindo’s Vedic Glossary.